What download have you bought?

[Beef Oven!]

I bought Per Nørgård’s symphonies 1, 2, 3 4 & 5 (Chandos, Lief Segerstam) on downloads a few years ago, I can’t remember where from.

They are 189 kbps (VBR) 44.100 kHz and sound a bit tired and dull against more recent purchases. I fancy getting something more up to date.

I’ve been eying John Storgårds’ 4 & 5 with the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra released last year on DACPO but as a Hi-Res 24-bit – 88.20 kHz download.

Anyone know this recording? Is it worth getting?

Does anyone know how far Thomas Dausgaard has got with his Per Nørgård symphonies?

[HighlandDougie]

[B]

I’ve been eying John Storgårds’ 4 & 5 with the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra released last year on DACPO but as a Hi-Res 24-bit – 88.20 kHz download.

Anyone know this recording? Is it worth getting?

Jayne LW has waxed much more lyrically in the past about the the excellence of the two CDs (2&6; 4&5) which John Storgårds and the Oslo PO released last year. All I can say is: bigly recommended - as is the Sakari Oramo/VPO 1 & 8, to which I've just been listening with much pleasure.

[Beef Oven!]

Jayne LW has waxed much more lyrically in the past about the the excellence of the two CDs (2&6; 4&5) which John Storgårds and the Oslo PO released last year. All I can say is: bigly recommended - as is the Sakari Oramo/VPO 1 & 8, to which I've just been listening with much pleasure.

I had a vague memory that Jayne had spoken bigly about these, but was not 100% sure. Now I expect to be told off for not paying sufficient attention!

[Beef Oven!]

Just noticed:

Per Nørgård

2nd Movement of Symphony #4 "Chinese Witch’s Lake" is 12 mins 38 secs on the Segerstam recording, but only 6 mins 57 secs on the Storgårds. What’s going on here?

Segerstam

Storgards

Edit: The first movement is longer in the Segerstam, too.

[Pulcinella]

Just noticed:

Per Nørgård

2nd Movement of Symphony #4 "Chinese Witch’s Lake" is 12 mins 38 secs on the Segerstam recording, but only 6 mins 57 secs on the Storgårds. What’s going on here?

Segerstam

Storgards

Edit: The first movement is longer in the Segerstam, too.

Segerstam is clearly using the Schubert edition: the one with repeats.

[HighlandDougie]

Just noticed:

Per Nørgård

2nd Movement of Symphony #4 "Chinese Witch’s Lake" is 12 mins 38 secs on the Segerstam recording, but only 6 mins 57 secs on the Storgårds. What’s going on here?

Segerstam

Storgards

Edit: The first movement is longer in the Segerstam, too.

Segerstam is, simply, much slower than Storgårds, who, in turn, is slower than Jorma Panula, who gets through the whole symphony in about 18 minutes, as opposed to Segerstam's 27'. Segerstam's approach is effective (as is usually the case, cf. the Bruckner 8th at the Barbican last year, which was possibly the slowest ever). But, then, so is that of Storgårds who sees the music in a different way (Panula is, for me, too rushed in his approach - he simply doesn't give the second movement in particular time to breathe and unfold). Both work.

[BBMmk2]

Does anyone know what the downloads sound quality is like from Amazon?

[Bryn]

Does anyone know what the downloads sound quality is like from Amazon?

Variable. Some are 320kbps mp3 (close to the quality of Radio 3 in HD Sound from the iPlayer), but many Amazon downloads still use 256kbps VBR mp3 or slightly lower. Amazon does not currently offer lossless downloads. If you buy a CD directly from amazon.co.uk you will normally get a 'free' download with the purchase. That will give you the opportunity to judge the audio quality for yourself.

[Beef Oven!]

Segerstam is, simply, much slower than Storgårds, who, in turn, is slower than Jorma Panula, who gets through the whole symphony in about 18 minutes, as opposed to Segerstam's 27'. Segerstam's approach is effective (as is usually the case, cf. the Bruckner 8th at the Barbican last year, which was possibly the slowest ever). But, then, so is that of Storgårds who sees the music in a different way (Panula is, for me, too rushed in his approach - he simply doesn't give the second movement in particular time to breathe and unfold). Both work.

Thanks HighlandDougie

I’m amazed! Storgårds gets through the last movement in about half the time, and it’s only 12/13 minutes at it’s longest!

I held off from buying it yesterday because I didn’t know what was going on.

None of the reviews mention how quick/slow Storgårds/Segerstam are, and some of them use Segerstam as the comparator.

Armed with this new information, I shall go ahead and make a purchase!

Cheers

[Beef Oven!]

Variable. Some are 320kbps mp3 (close to the quality of Radio 3 in HD Sound from the iPlayer), but many Amazon downloads still use 256kbps VBR mp3 or slightly lower. Amazon does not currently offer lossless downloads. If you buy a CD directly from amazon.co.uk you will normally get a 'free' download with the purchase. That will give you the opportunity to judge the audio quality for yourself.

Apparently Amazon.com (US) offers on-demand CD quality downloads. I heard about this 2/3 years ago (that they were introducing it in the US) and the idea was they’d roll it out worldwide. Obviously it hasn’t arrived here yet.

Seems so simple and logical, I don’t know why Amazon is dragging its feet. Maybe Amazon is doing fine with lossy formats and don’t need to cater for audio-nerds like us. Perhaps they know that price-wise they wouldn’t be able to compete with the likes of Qobuz, eClassical et al (Amazon’s pricing, on the whole, has become pretty steep for new/recent releases, IMO).

[Bryn]

Apparently Amazon.com (US) offers on-demand CD quality downloads. I heard about this 2/3 years ago (that they were introducing it in the US) and the idea was they’d roll it out worldwide. Obviously it hasn’t arrived here yet.

Seems so simple and logical, I don’t know why Amazon is dragging its feet. Maybe Amazon is doing fine with lossy formats and don’t need to cater for audio-nerds like us. Perhaps they know that price-wise they wouldn’t be able to compete with the likes of Qobuz, eClassical et al (Amazon’s pricing, on the whole, has become pretty steep for new/recent releases, IMO).

amazon.com's own discussion forum says no. The most recent message there is dated this April.

[Beef Oven!]

amazon.com's own discussion forum says no. The most recent message there is dated this April.

I don't understand what's going on. I read the opposite. Seems your reference is more likely to be correct.

Apologies if I raised hopes.

As you were.

[jayne lee wilson]

I bought Per Nørgård’s symphonies 1, 2, 3 4 & 5 (Chandos, Lief Segerstam) on downloads a few years ago, I can’t remember where from.

They are 189 kbps (VBR) 44.100 kHz and sound a bit tired and dull against more recent purchases. I fancy getting something more up to date.

I’ve been eying John Storgårds’ 4 & 5 with the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra released last year on DACPO but as a Hi-Res 24-bit – 88.20 kHz download.

Anyone know this recording? Is it worth getting?

Does anyone know how far Thomas Dausgaard has got with his Per Nørgård symphonies?

AS you may have gathered Beef, I'm short of time again here (I've only just heard the BaL on Gubaidulina, may comment later...) but - yes, this and all of the Storgårds/Da Capo Nørgård recordings are topnotch, sonically and musically.
But it's a little complicated: 1 & 8 are with the VPO/Oramo; 3 & 7 Danish NSO/Dausgaard; then the Oslo PO/Storgårds came out with 2 & 6, 4 & 5 to complete the Da Capo cycle last year - which releases I recall listing in my 2016 best-of roundup.

Earlier, Dausgaard recorded No.6 c/w Terrains Vagues for Chandos, in 2002. All their other recordings were with Segerstam but they've never done the much later-composed 7 or 8. Again, very recommendable.

With that timing contrast in No.4, it is as you may imagine: IIRC, tighter more focussed enmeshing lines in Storgards, a softer-grained teasing out of colour, detail and atmosphere in Segerstam (broadly true of their other tapings too). I just tended toward the latter for a more atmospheric evocative realisation of the images implied by those vivid titles.
I made a comparison somewhere here but sadly I seem not to have saved it. Might be in New Releases...I think Andrew Mellor in Gramophone preferred the newcomers, but (shock-horror) I can't currently access the archive - waiting for ExactEds to help...

Personal favourites? That otherworldly Vienna Phil 8th (the finale really does sound like the air from another planet), ( No.1 is a kind-of "moving on from Holmboe" apprentice piece, really). Segerstam's 4th, either of No.6 and the brilliant, phantasmagorical 7th**.
When I tried with it again last year, I still found No.3 a bit of a long haul... but, as the composer said he intends, every piece is utterly distinctive. Only 7 and 8 seem to have any affinity with each other.

(** When I bought the 24-bit download direct from Da Capo a few years ago, I disliked it so much I actually deleted it!
Suffice to say I now have both CD and download... I guess my feelings have changed just a little... ... but Norgård can really baffle you at first, and sometimes when you return after a long gap, it can feel like starting over! Which I'm sure the composer would be delighted to hear...)

[Beef Oven!]

AS you may have gathered Beef, I'm short of time again here (I've only just heard the BaL on Gubaidulina, may comment later...) but - yes, this and all of the Storgårds/Da Capo Nørgård recordings are topnotch, sonically and musically.
But it's a little complicated: 1 & 8 are with the VPO/Oramo; 3 & 7 Danish NSO/Dausgaard; then the Oslo PO/Storgårds came out with 2 & 6, 4 & 5 to complete the Da Capo cycle last year - which releases I recall listing in my 2016 best-of roundup.

Earlier, Dausgaard recorded No.6 c/w Terrains Vagues for Chandos, in 2002. All their other recordings were with Segerstam but they've never done the much later-composed 7 or 8. Again, very recommendable.

With that timing contrast in No.4, it is as you may imagine: IIRC, tighter more focussed enmeshing lines in Storgards, a softer-grained teasing out of colour, detail and atmosphere in Segerstam (broadly true of their other tapings too). I just tended toward the latter for a more atmospheric evocative realisation of the images implied by those vivid titles.
I made a comparison somewhere here but sadly I seem not to have saved it. Might be in New Releases...I. think Andrew Mellor in Gramophone preferred the newcomers, but (shock-horror) I can't currently access the archive - waiting for EE to help...

Personal favourites? That otherworldly Vienna Phil 8th (the finale really does sound like the air from another planet), ( No.1 is a kind-of "moving on from Holmboe" apprentice piece, really). Segerstam's 4th, either of No.6 and the brilliant, phantasmagorical 7th**.
When I tried with it again last year, I still found No.3 a bit of a long haul... but, as the composer said he intends, every piece is utterly distinctive. Only 7 and 8 seem to have any affinity with each other.

(** When I bought the 24-bit download direct from Da Capo a few years ago, I disliked it so much I actually deleted it!
Suffice to say I now have both CD and download... I guess my feelings have changed just a little... ... but Norgård can really baffle you at first, and sometimes when you return after a long gap, it can feel like starting over! Which I'm sure the composer would be delighted to hear...)

Jayne, many thanks for taking the trouble to give such an interesting and helpful response. I shall think it over and may renew my Segerstam with higher bit rate downloads as well. And you've whet my appetite for #7 which I hardly know. Hope things settle down on the domestic front.

Cheers!

[mahlerei]

beefy

Jayne's said it all, really. If you're feeling adventurous do try Nørgård's opera, Der göttliche Tivoli, based on the life of the Swiss artist/composer Adolf Wölfli, who spent most of his life in a lunatic asylum. It's extreme, but also funny, touching and strangely liberating. For Nørgård in a lighter mood, try A Light Hour. Both are fine Dacapo releases.