Berliner Philharmoniker goes vinyl with the Brahms symphonies

[Petrushka]

It was Herbert von Karajan who proclaimed, at the first presentation to the world of the CD: 'All else is gaslight', so one wonders what his reaction would have been on hearing of this vinyl release.

On the question of Kirill Petrenko, I've not been keeping up with thoughts and comments in the musical world regarding his appointment since the initial announcement so would appreciate any links to articles of interest either pro or anti. He is, I think, conducting them just once this season which seems an odd way of pushing forward his talents just a year before he takes on the top job. Surely the orchestra could have lined up a few guest conducting spots so audiences can have a feel for what he will bring to the party? That's what the LSO have done with Rattle.

[richardfinegold]

Many years ago, I had a wealthy friend who SWORE by vinyl! One evening, he gathered a few friends to hear his latest acquisition- the Brahms symphonies conducted by Bruno Walter and the Columbia Symphony Orchestra that had been cut to vinyl with one side to each movement played at 45rpm and had been sent from the USA. To say he had state of the art equipment would be an understatement! Anyone who spends £35k on a turntable has to be pretty series about sound quality!

After we had listened to the first movement of Symphony 4, someone suggested we do a side by side comparison with The commercially available cd. So, he cued up the cd and vinyl and played them simultaneously, swapping between medium. To be honest, I thought the vinyl had a little more depth of sound but hardly enough to justify spending £400 on the vinyl set. (As opposed to £8 for the cd. (I recently picked up the same CDs for £1 in a charity shop!))

All was going well until the climax of the movement when the Lp got stuck, playing the same bar over and over until he gave it a nudge. To give my friend his due, he saw the funny side but I couldn't help thinking he'd wasted £400!

Nothing beats a story about audiophiles with more cash than brains getting their comeuppance. We have had the vinyl vs. digital discussion before. For me any slight possible infinitesimal improvement in sound from an lp and an expensive lp replay system--and I am not admitting that such an advantage is in fact present--is canceled out 1000 times over by the drawbacks of lp replay, as PG's story so deliciously illustrates.
This release would seem to be aimed at the 1 percenters who have fallen for the current audiophile press prejudice towards vinyl and who own lp replay systems as vanity audiophile jewelry. Usually these people, writers included, don't have a clue as to what makes a great classical performance.

[Nick Armstrong]

Nothing beats a story about audiophiles with more cash than brains getting their comeuppance. We have had the vinyl vs. digital discussion before. For me any slight possible infinitesimal improvement in sound from an lp and an expensive lp replay system--and I am not admitting that such an advantage is in fact present--is canceled out 1000 times over by the drawbacks of lp replay, as PG's story so deliciously illustrates.
This release would seem to be aimed at the 1 percenters who have fallen for the current audiophile press prejudice towards vinyl and who own lp replay systems as vanity audiophile jewelry. Usually these people, writers included, don't have a clue as to what makes a great classical performance.

Agree with every word!

[Stanfordian]

And there I think you have it. I'm sorry but I completely fail to see the point of this release which will no doubt come at a premium price. Is it meant as a status symbol for the wealthy? I greatly admire both Rattle and the BPO but it seems self-defeating to promote this sort of product. One thing is for sure, they won't be able to shift many such recordings once Petrenko takes over unless he is something ultra, ultra special and as he's hardly ever appeared with the BPO (and has even cancelled on them) the appointment continues to leave me puzzled.

Hiya Petrushka,

Will Kirill Petrenko ever take over? Many conductors would kill for that job but he is dragging his feet. Kirill has already put back his start date at least once I believe. I saw him conduct the Bayerisches Staastsorchester at Berlin a couple of months ago and he is some conductor. The audiance was on its feet applauding.

[Stanfordian]

Perhaps he's the man to do the George Lloyd symphonies,Simon is running out of time

Hiya Rob,

No way! Kirill will conduct a Robert Simpson cycle of symphonies; it can't be Riccardo Chailly as he has never heard of Simpson

[Stanfordian]

And there I think you have it. I'm sorry but I completely fail to see the point of this release which will no doubt come at a premium price. Is it meant as a status symbol for the wealthy? I greatly admire both Rattle and the BPO but it seems self-defeating to promote this sort of product. One thing is for sure, they won't be able to shift many such recordings once Petrenko takes over unless he is something ultra, ultra special and as he's hardly ever appeared with the BPO (and has even cancelled on them) the appointment continues to leave me puzzled.

Hiya Petrushka,,

So you have not seen the price then?

[Petrushka]

Hiya Petrushka,,

So you have not seen the price then?

True, I haven't but the clues are there in the issues on CD that have come from this label. Richardfinegold puts it all better than I could in his post above.

[Stanfordian]

True, I haven't but the clues are there in the issues on CD that have come from this label. Richardfinegold puts it all better than I could in his post above.

Hiya Petrushka,

You better sit down then.

rrp: 499,00 €

Must be a mistake surely!

[Conchis]

Many years ago, I had a wealthy friend who SWORE by vinyl! One evening, he gathered a few friends to hear his latest acquisition- the Brahms symphonies conducted by Bruno Walter and the Columbia Symphony Orchestra that had been cut to vinyl with one side to each movement played at 45rpm and had been sent from the USA. To say he had state of the art equipment would be an understatement! Anyone who spends £35k on a turntable has to be pretty series about sound quality!

After we had listened to the first movement of Symphony 4, someone suggested we do a side by side comparison with The commercially available cd. So, he cued up the cd and vinyl and played them simultaneously, swapping between medium. To be honest, I thought the vinyl had a little more depth of sound but hardly enough to justify spending £400 on the vinyl set. (As opposed to £8 for the cd. (I recently picked up the same CDs for £1 in a charity shop!))

All was going well until the climax of the movement when the Lp got stuck, playing the same bar over and over until he gave it a nudge. To give my friend his due, he saw the funny side but I couldn't help thinking he'd wasted £400!

I don't believe in the superiority of vinyl and consider the vinyl resurgence to be industry-provoked (and who can blame the industry?). Although I can (up to a point) understand the preference of rock/jazz fans for vinyl, I think for orchestral/chamber/opera, the CD still reigns supreme.

[pastoralguy]

I don't believe in the superiority of vinyl and consider the vinyl resurgence to be industry-provoked (and who can blame the industry?). Although I can (up to a point) understand the preference of rock/jazz fans for vinyl, I think for orchestral/chamber/opera, the CD still reigns supreme.

30 odd years ago I put the Dutoit/Montreal Symphony Orchestra cd of Daphnes and Chloe into my new fangled CD player and waited for the crackle. I'm still waiting...

[umslopogaas]

Conchis, I dont think the vinyl resurgence is industry provoked, though industry is very willing to respond. My local hifi shop sells three types of LP.

1. Secondhand items from the fifties - eighties period before CDs. Some of this vinyl is very collectible.

2. Replicas, made in Germany for around twenty five quid, of the above mentioned classic collectibles, some of which sell for hundreds of quid.

3. New issues of work by current pop and folk bands. Who also issue their stuff on CD of course, but they insist on vinyl issues.

All of these are driven either by consumer demand, or by the musicians themselves. I'd be the first to admit CD's superiority, but there clearly is an enduring demand for vinyl. I collect it, on the increasingly rare occasions I can find any classic material worth buying. It isnt cheap, I was recently offered an LP for £350 and would have paid it, but mercifully I already had it.

[mathias broucek]

This kind of luxury product makes me come over all Jeremy Corbyn....

Over the years I've spent quite a bit of money on music (hardware and software) but the idea of spending this much on a single set of Brahms symphonies is nauseating to me. There are dozens of excellent charities that could do much good with €500.

Also, although I have a fancy HiFi set-up that would perhaps allow me to appreciate this product (Linn Sondek, Naim amplification etc.), the job that allows me to buy these fancy toys and my other adult responsibilities mean that I don't spend nearly as much time as I used to listening to and playing music and therefore my ear isn't what is was... Surely that's true for most of the target market?

[pastoralguy]

Whenever I watch 'Top Gear' I always remember that very few people are going to get to drive ANY of these supercars, never mind so many that one could be able to make comparisons. And so it is with hi-fi.

If I won the lottery and had the time and money to make comparisons between equipment that would be terrific but, realistically, I have to be happy with the lovely system Mrs. PG and I bought between us. And yet, companies must sell the esoteric equipment that they send to be reviewed in magazines such as Hi-Fi News or they would soon go bust. (This month they featured a turntable and arm that cost about £110,000). My local Hi-Fi shop tells me they do have customers who regularly trade in their less than a year old equipment for the latest.

I recently went to a demonstration of very expensive equipment at my local Hi-Fi shop where the system being demonstrated came to circa £60,000 and, yes, it did make my beloved cd of Muti and the Philadelphia orchestra playing 'Le Sacre' sound incredible! And if I had the money I probably would buy it. However, I have to balance that against a patient I admitted at work who was living on £370 a MONTH! He only had his work clothes since he literally could not afford to buy his own. (Mrs. PG and I bought him some clothes in a charity shop).

And yet Sir Philip Green is now on his THIRD yacht that cost £100,000,000. (Well, he's SIR Philip for the moment).

What an odd world we live in.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If the "cost" of being able to have enough spare money to be able to buy three yachts at £100million a pop is to have the morals and values of Mr Green, I shall look upon my feeble, lo-fi players with all the greater affection and gratitude.

[richardfinegold]

This kind of luxury product makes me come over all Jeremy Corbyn....

Over the years I've spent quite a bit of money on music (hardware and software) but the idea of spending this much on a single set of Brahms symphonies is nauseating to me. There are dozens of excellent charities that could do much good with €500.

Also, although I have a fancy HiFi set-up that would perhaps allow me to appreciate this product (Linn Sondek, Naim amplification etc.), the job that allows me to buy these fancy toys and my other adult responsibilities mean that I don't spend nearly as much time as I used to listening to and playing music and therefore my ear isn't what is was... Surely that's true for most of the target market?

Well, there are always the members of the Lucky Sperm Club, who can work as much or as little as they please. Otherwise, as noted previously, and as confirmed by by Stan in the price of these lps, these are luxury products for the Audio as Bling Lovers .