A Messiah to send Hippites rushing for the smelling salts ?

[Richard Barrett]

the whole piece is in F major (as opposed to B4's G)

Oops, I'd forgotten that... I think I'd better retire to my study and do the decent thing.



Regarding notes off the bottom of the pedal board, sometimes you just have to write it the way you hear it even if it's impossible because not to do so (as in this case) would just be inelegant. Composers are only human after all, even JSB.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Composers are only human after all, even JSB.

I'm sure this is a listed heresy but can't quite quote its name at the minute

[PS Might it be Triclavianism? Sounds right somehow...]

[Flosshilde]

Large choirs tend to mask any deficiencies of individual singers in quite a strange way - something I've noticed in other contexts, such as amateur dramatic performances.

Which conjures up an image of an amateur production of, say, Hamlet with several actors to each part.

[Barbirollians]

This is due to arrive tomorrow I shall report back .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Mine arrived on the dot on Thursday. I was in hospital on Friday, so wasn't able to listen until today.

Although a 1964 performance it's in mono only, but I'm most grateful that it was recorded at all. From a sound point of view, there's rather a lot of zooming in on the solo bits, with the chorus sounding distant, but once that is accepted, it become acceptable.

Actually it won't send HIPPites for the smelling salts nearly as much as Beecham's or Sargent's. Sargent single dots the crotchets in the Overture Grave section, but JB sticks to the score. He had refused to conduct Messiah until he had found a score he considered authentic. He doesn't use Mozart's additional harmonies in The People that walked in Darkness. He returns But Who May Abide to the alto. Barbirolli makes the traditional cuts in parts 2 & 3., which won't please many people (myself included).

Looking at the CD booklet, I noticed the listings of two earlier Halle/Barbirolli performances, which included my first ever live Messiah in 1960. Well, not quite. The one listed was on 10.12.60 in Sheffield City Hall. My mother and I heard it on the following day at the King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester. The King's Hall was used every year for the Messiah performances and for a few special concerts with audiences anticipated to be larger than the capacity of the Free Trade Hall. As the King's Hall was built as a permanent Circus "big top", the very large choir occupied a segment of the vast circle of seats, with the audience in the central circus area, where the lions and elephants would parade a few weeks later. It was a memorable occasion for so many reasons - my mother's huge smile as we stood for the Hallelujah Chorus and as we sat through I Know that my Redeemer Liveth. (The journey home was difficult for my mother as we had to rush for the last train, suppressing a call of nature, and then the toilets on the train were out of order, but fortunately there were some at our destination station - 15 minutes later. She was quite ill for some time after that.)

Returning to this recording, Kim Borg is superb, probably the best of the soloists. Elizabeth Harwood is a soprano about whom I've always been a little ambivalent, and I remain so, and there is a just a hint of some unwanted interference in her opening recitatives, almost like feedback, but that couldn't be the problem in this instance.

All in all, a most satisfying experience.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I forgot to mention that And With His Stripes is omitted. As this makes an ugly break in a three movement segue, one can only assume that something went amiss in the performance.

[Warlock]

I have just looked at the programmes for several of Barbirolli's performances of Messiah in Sheffield and "With his Stripes" was never included. I have somewhere a programme for a performance he gave at the Edinburgh Festival and when I find it I will check if it was included then. I am fairly certain though that the answer will be no!

[Barbirollians]

Interested to read EA's comments . The star of the show is indeed Barbirolli a deeply felt but by no means Sargent reading of the score . The mono recording is however pretty primitive .The Sheffield Philharmonic Chorus sing full heartedly and there is a decent contribution from the orchestra in particular the Halle strings .

I agree about Kim Borg no issues with his English at all and some lovely singing from Gerald English too . Elizabeth Harwood is fine to my ears but she sounds much more inside her big solos in the Mackerras recording .

The problem for me is the contralto. Marjorie Thomas lays on the vibrato with a trowel and O Thou that Tellest is a trial . He was despised is better but one can only imagine Barbirolli wishing Ferrier was still around .

[Barbirollians]

Interested to read EA's comments . The star of the show is indeed Barbirolli a deeply felt but by no means Sargent reading of the score . The mono recording is however pretty primitive .The Sheffield Philharmonic Chorus sing full heartedly and there is a decent contribution from the orchestra in particular the Halle strings .

I agree about Kim Borg no issues with his English at all and some lovely singing from Gerald English too . Elizabeth Harwood is fine to my ears but she sounds much more inside her big solos in the Mackerras recording .

The problem for me is the contralto. Marjorie Thomas lays on the vibrato with a trowel and O Thou that Tellest is a trial . He was despised is better but one can only imagine Barbirolli wishing Ferrier was still around .

Looking at the programmes in the booklet I wish there had been recordings of one of the performances with Richard Lewis and Marian Nowakowski

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Looking at the programmes in the booklet I wish there had been recordings of one of the performances with Richard Lewis and Marian Nowakowski

The 1960 performance was the only occasion that I heard Richard Lewis singing live.

[Warlock]

It would have been nice to have a recording of the 1952 Barbirolli performance at the Edinburgh Festival with Irmgard Siegfried and Kathleen Ferrier but unfortunately it was not recorded. It would have been nice to have a commercial recording but unfortunately EMI couldn't be persuaded to do one. I personally am delighted that at last a Barbirolli interpretation has become available.

[vibratoforever]

Listening to the Barbirolli Society cds there seems to be no sonic differences compared to the former web incarnations on Youtube or elsewhere, but the release is welcome for the additional audience that it will garner.

I attended Barbirolli's penultimate performance of Messiah, in Sheffield in 1969. As then, the shouting of the final "Hallelujah" on the recording is a minor irritation but the rest is very enjoyable, especially Gerald English's contribution.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It would have been nice to have a recording of the 1952 Barbirolli performance at the Edinburgh Festival with Irmgard Siegfried and Kathleen Ferrier but unfortunately it was not recorded. It would have been nice to have a commercial recording but unfortunately EMI couldn't be persuaded to do one.

Sadly, Barbirolli and Ferrier had exclusive recording contracts with different companies in 1952. In 1964, Barbirolli made his EMI recording of Dream of Gerontius and Sea Pictures. Now, if the Mezzo on those recordings had been around Belle Vue in that year ...

I personally am delighted that at last a Barbirolli interpretation has become available.

[Warlock]

Sadly, Barbirolli and Ferrier had exclusive recording contracts with different companies in 1952. In 1964, Barbirolli made his EMI recording of Dream of Gerontius and Sea Pictures. Now, if the Mezzo on those recordings had been around Belle Vue in that year ...

I wasn't suggesting that Barbirolli could have recorded it with Ferrier. I know about the recording contracts but I did on several occasions try to persuade the relevant peopled at EMI to do a commercial recording of Messiah with him. Likewise the Bach St Matthew Passion which Barbirolli conducted four times in Manchester but none of these performances were recorded.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ah! I misread your post - my apologies; and thanks for at least trying to get EMI interested.