Liszt's Piano Music

[Thropplenoggin]

Interesting to read your thoughts, Richard, on the programme.

Great call on Hamelin, BBM - I hadn't considered him.

[Daniel]

... a few of the Transcendental Etudes (a pompous title if there ever was one)

I remember hearing about the Liszt Etudes when I was young and thinking wow they must be good if they're transcendental!

Sad but true, anyway I bought the Lazar Berman* LP but found them largely empty of appeal which was most disappointing. Later a teacher encouraged me to learn one, but this if anything increased my feeling of alienation from them**. There's quite a bit I do like by Liszt (B minor Sonata which I got to know on a scintillating Bolet LP on Everest, some Annees de Pelerinage, some later pieces) but for a lot of it, life can seem a bit short. Having said that I do feel strangely affectionate about Liszt.

*You'll be thrilled to know, my first landlady in London was once married to Lazar Berman.

**I also accompanied a singer in some Liszt which I liked for Peter Pears, he seemed nice enough but looked a bit cheesed off as I remember. Not sure if that was Liszt, us, life in general, or perhaps all three.

p.s one of the most dazzling displays of virtuosity I've ever seen was a 15 year old Dimitris Sgouros at the RFH in 1983, playing amongst other things an utterly sui generis Mephisto Waltz.

Anyway very interesting reading this thread, I'll give the Etudes another shot.

[Richard Tarleton]

**I also accompanied a singer in some Liszt which I liked for Peter Pears

I have a lovely CD of Liszt songs (or rather half a CD, the rest is taken up by Dichterliebe) sung by Barbara Bonney with Anthony Pappano. 5 are in French, 6 are in German, including Die Lorelei. Liszt and Marie d'Agoult stayed together on the island of Nonnenwerth on the Rhine, with its ruined convent, chapel and fishermens' huts in 1841 when their relationship was falling apart. He wrote Die Lorelei there - "Liszt must have sailed past the Lorelei many times, and he found the old legend impossible to resist. It drew from him a setting which now ranks with the finest of his seventy songs. The introduction contains a striking allusion to the opening bars of Tristan, not the first time that Liszt had stolen from the future of music" (Alan Walker, op. cit. vol.1)

[richardfinegold]

I remember hearing about the Liszt Etudes when I was young and thinking wow they must be good if they're transcendental!

Sad but true, anyway I bought the Lazar Berman* LP but found them largely empty of appeal which was most disappointing. Later a teacher encouraged me to learn one, but this if anything increased my feeling of alienation from them**. There's quite a bit I do like by Liszt (B minor Sonata which I got to know on a scintillating Bolet LP on Everest, some Annees de Pelerinage, some later pieces) but for a lot of it, life can seem a bit short. Having said that I do feel strangely affectionate about Liszt.

*You'll be thrilled to know, my first landlady in London was once married to Lazar Berman.

**I also accompanied a singer in some Liszt which I liked for Peter Pears, he seemed nice enough but looked a bit cheesed off as I remember. Not sure if that was Liszt, us, life in general, or perhaps all three.

p.s one of the most dazzling displays of virtuosity I've ever seen was a 15 year old Dimitris Sgouros at the RFH in 1983, playing amongst other things an utterly sui generis Mephisto Waltz.

Anyway very interesting reading this thread, I'll give the Etudes another shot.

Wow, you've rubbed shoulders with some interesting people. As I said, I think there is enough interesting Liszt to fill about 3 CDs. The other 96--well, I guess you gotta be a true fan...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As I said, I think there is enough interesting Liszt to fill about 3 CDs. The other 96--well, I guess you gotta be a true fan...

I'd get to six CDs worth - the two Symphonies (especially in Conlon's recordings), the Piano Sonata (Brendel's first from VOX for me), the Annees de Pelerinage (they need three discs - Jando on NAXOS I find utterly convincing and rewarding - Liszt's piano writing at its best; I really must seek out Kempff, though) some of the late piano and chamber pieces - and a few bonbons like the Rigoletto paraphrase.

Otherwise, I find the flying fistfuls of notes noisy and simply unbearable - often some very interesting harmonies but I'm not entirely convinced by what he does with them. More frequently, I just find the works tiresome; "bombastic" sums most of it up exactly for me, even if it's an inaccurate and grossly unfair description of the man himself. I should listen to some of the lieder, though - I suspect that I would find more to enjoy there.


Incidentally - I don't think the title Etudes Transcendantales at all "pompous": it sums up precisely what the works were intended to achieve - the pianist transcends the limits of his/her previous abilities once they have gone through the process of mastering the technique to play the notes accurately*. It's just that other composers have done better things with the title.


(* = And the Trifonov recording may make it onto my Christmas list - if anyone can convince me of the Musical value of the work, he can!)

[visualnickmos]

Just given the 12 Transcendental Etudes a spin - Lazar Berman on a CD 'free' with Diapason magazine a few years ago. It is rather good, to say the least... the playing really draws in one's attention very subtly. I will give it another spin soon...

[gurnemanz]

I have a lovely CD of Liszt songs (or rather half a CD, the rest is taken up by Dichterliebe) sung by Barbara Bonney with Anthony Pappano. 5 are in French, 6 are in German, including Die Lorelei. Liszt and Marie d'Agoult stayed together on the island of Nonnenwerth on the Rhine, with its ruined convent, chapel and fishermens' huts in 1841 when their relationship was falling apart. He wrote Die Lorelei there - "Liszt must have sailed past the Lorelei many times, and he found the old legend impossible to resist. It drew from him a setting which now ranks with the finest of his seventy songs. The introduction contains a striking allusion to the opening bars of Tristan, not the first time that Liszt had stolen from the future of music" (Alan Walker, op. cit. vol.1)

Until quite recently I only knew a few of the songs including a fine disc from Janet Baker and Geoffrey Parsons but got to know many more via the DG collection a few years ago, which has 5 CDs' worth - three with Fischer-Dieskau and Barenboim and one each from Brigitte Fassbaender and Heildergard Berhrens. There is an essay, "Liszt and the the Lied" in Alan Walker's "Reflections on Liszt". He comments: "Liszt put the best of himself into his songs. That they failed to make their way into the standard repertoire was among his major disappointments." This might be changing - I see that Hyperion are up to Vol 4 of their Complete Edition.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Continuing off-topic (though I suppose Liszt songs do have a piano part, even if not usually classed as 'piano music'), I do feel that Liszt is quite amazing and so-o-o-o frustrating when he wrecks an absolutely perfect gem of a setting by seemingly infinite repetitions. The end of ''Uber allen Gipfeln ist Ruh'" is probably the prime example.

The only small qualification I'd make is that in a live recital from a singer with a really gorgeous voice, it is possible to be grateful for this and to wish the song will never end (Kiri Te Kanawa did this for me once in this particular song). But in my book this still doesn't justify the failure to create a setting that is properly respectful of the size and shape of Goethe's lyric.

[Me a Puritan???]

[teamsaint]

And continuing off topic, I have been giving the Missa Solemnis S9 a spin tonight. Don't know this, and was pretty impressed.
Certainly a bold setting, with a distinct flavour of Berlioz?

however, the performance ( Sorbonne Choir and Orchestra/ Grimbert) probably doesn't do the work full justice. ( Is that a nice way of putting it?).
It's Ok, but anybody got a recommendation for a really good performance?

[ahinton]

Incidentally - I don't think the title Etudes Transcendantales at all "pompous": it sums up precisely what the works were intended to achieve - the pianist transcends the limits of his/her previous abilities once they have gone through the process of mastering the technique to play the notes accurately*. It's just that other composers have done better things with the title.

Whilst I am aware that one composer has since had recourse to it (and I'm pretty sure that we both know who that is!), Sorabji - an immense admirer of Liszt who pushed and plugged his work at a time when, for all LIszt's "household name" status, most of it remained largely unknown to the public - wrote a series of 100 Transcendental Studies (1940-44) for his instrument of which five of a projected seven CDs are now out, in the immensely capable hands of Sewdish pianist Fredrik Ullén, on the Swedish BIS label and the other two should be out by the end of next year...

[Richard Tarleton]

Whilst I am aware that one composer has since had recourse to it (and I'm pretty sure that we both know who that is!)

Thank you for this ah - erm, who is that (for the rest of us )? I see that Lyapunov wrote a set of 12, but then he was a pupil of Klindworth who was of course a pupil (and friend) of Liszt. Ferney's post referred to "others" plural?

[EdgeleyRob]

Thank you for this ah - erm, who is that (for the rest of us )? I see that Lyapunov wrote a set of 12, but then he was a pupil of Klindworth who was of course a pupil (and friend) of Liszt. Ferney's post referred to "others" plural?

Ferneyhough himself wrote some,but they ain't for solo piano.
The Lyapunovs are wonderful,the whole set is on you tube.

[Richard Tarleton]

Thanks Rob. I'll look them out.

[Jonathan]

'll also put in a plug for the Lyapunov - really looking forward to Florian Noack's recording of this work, following the fantastic first two volumes of what promises to be the complete piano works.

Back on topic: there is another set of Transcendental Etudes by Liszt - the original version of the so called Paganini Studies (the Études d'exécution transcendante d'après Paganini, S.140) which have only been recorded twice (that I know of) - once by Leslie Howard and the other by Goran Filipec which is a stupendous recording and is part of the ongoing Naxos series. It also won the Grand Prix du disque Liszt for 2015.

[Thropplenoggin]

Trifonov gets CD of the Week in The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...n-cd-classical

There's a couple of videos of him playing/discussing the works, too.