Do you enjoy older or old recordings?

[jayne lee wilson]

Jayne
Many thanks for your response up-thread. I'll get the HFN articles and bone-up on digital. Unfortunately our Internet connection speed seems to vary from barely adequate to bad and dropouts/buffering occurs when streaming R3 so I think hi-res downloads are impossible for the time being until BT gets its act together in these parts. The Harbeth speakers look interesting and a little easier to house than my current Quad 63's, I'm still in the Quad era amp-wise too!

"Still in the Quad era"? That's not exactly a bad start! Sorry about your internet... no Infinity yet then? Yeah, they took ages to get to Liverpool...
Do bear in mind though, no matter how long a given download takes, once it's on your drive the internet is irrelevant to playback... (always switch off wireless functions like airport before playback off a computer drive, to avoid noise or interruption from auto-updates, etc).

Happy listening (and experimenting) anyway!

[Dave2002]

I was totally thrown this morning, while listening to Record Review. I really should own up to this one.

"Obviously" the Gershwin piece was an old recording - both stylistically, and in terms of sound quality.
Not so, it seems.

I didn't look to see what it would be in advance and I didn't hear any details before as I came in about half way through.

OK - I would have been hampered by the sound on this occasion - via my TV set, but it just sounded like something from the 1960s.

Perhaps it will sound a lot better if I listen again via my rather better system, and through the computer link to my DAC using iPlayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07nm3l8 11.50am

Gershwin: An American in Paris & Piano Concerto in F
GERSHWIN: An American in Paris, tone poem; Piano Concerto in F major; Of Thee I Sing Overture; Preludes (3)
Lincoln Mayorga (piano), Harmonie Ensemble / New York, Steven Richman
HARMONIA MUNDI HMU907658

[pastoralguy]

I was totally thrown this morning, while listening to Record Review. I really should own up to this one.

"Obviously" the Gershwin piece was an old recording - both stylistically, and in terms of sound quality.
Not so, it seems.

I didn't look to see what it would be in advance and I didn't hear any details before as I came in about half way through.

OK - I would have been hampered by the sound on this occasion - via my TV set, but it just sounded like something from the 1960s.

Perhaps it will sound a lot better if I listen again via my rather better system, and through the computer link to my DAC using iPlayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07nm3l8 11.50am

Gershwin: An American in Paris & Piano Concerto in F
GERSHWIN: An American in Paris, tone poem; Piano Concerto in F major; Of Thee I Sing Overture; Preludes (3)
Lincoln Mayorga (piano), Harmonie Ensemble / New York, Steven Richman
HARMONIA MUNDI HMU907658

We were sitting three feet away from Andrew and saw him put the disc in the CD player and it was DEFINITELY a new release.

[Bryn]

... Beethoven violin sonatas,, Arthur Grumiaux and Clara Haskil in a Regis box - The Art of the Violin, again from 1956-7. ...

The Grumiaux/Haskil Beethoven Sonata were also included in the original version of the Brilliant Classics complete works (clearly noted as licenced from Decca). Not sure whether they remain in more recent versions of the box.

[Dave2002]

We were sitting three feet away from Andrew and saw him put the disc in the CD player and it was DEFINITELY a new release.

I'm sure you're right, but it didn't sound like a new recording when I heard it. The Prom tonight (live) had a lot more vibrancy in the American in Paris section.

[mathias broucek]

Yes, but sometimes it can go the other way - the often very close-set Columbia Stravinsky recordings from the 60s, can be a bit fierce and compressed on many systems I've tried, but they seem to sound better, the more you hear of them...

Don't forget Pristine Audio and their XR remastering - anyone into older classical recordings should sign up and explore the many riches. The technical stuff is interesting (some would say controversial...), though you might want to make the coffee (or something stronger) before you start reading it....

https://www.pristineclassical.com/xr

https://www.pristineclassical.com/ambient-stereo

Well that's inspired me to investigate. May start with Ormandy's 1951 Lemminkainen Legends.

Was troubled by the first article referencing an e music download as the reference. Those tend to be quite bit rates....

[mikealdren]

The Grumiaux/Haskil Beethoven Sonata were also included in the original version of the Brilliant Classics complete works (clearly noted as licenced from Decca). Not sure whether they remain in more recent versions of the box.

I have both the Regis and Brilliant but I've never compared them. I'll listen tomorrow (I'm away from home this weekend) and report back. They've also been reissued on Phillips but I haven't heard them.
Mike

[mikealdren]

Jayne
Many thanks for your response up-thread. I'll get the HFN articles and bone-up on digital. Unfortunately our Internet connection speed seems to vary from barely adequate to bad and dropouts/buffering occurs when streaming R3 so I think hi-res downloads are impossible for the time being until BT gets its act together in these parts. The Harbeth speakers look interesting and a little easier to house than my current Quad 63's, I'm still in the Quad era amp-wise too!

I've gradually updated over many years and ran ELS63s for a long time. I always believed that good amplifiers all sounded the same but excellent reviews in many magazines persuaded me to upgrade my amp to an Exposure set up a long time ago, it made a big difference.

I moved to separate DAC which the years and I found a large improvement then a year or two ago I replaced the DAC and found a further large improvement. One of my Quads was beginning to buzz so I looked into replacing/repairing them and bought some ELS2805s, they are really excellent and look so much more modern.

Shortly after, following excellent reviews I got a Chord Hugo and this has really lit up my system. My advice, look into DACs, there have been big improvements there in recent years.

PS I've also moved to a computer based system and no longer use a CD player.

[mathias broucek]

I moved to separate DAC which the years and I found a large improvement then a year or two ago I replaced the DAC and found a further large improvement.

....

My advice, look into DACs, there have been big improvements there in recent years..

DACs do seem to make a big difference. I have a Naim SuperUniti (streamer / DAC / amp) and it plays lossless rips of CDs better than my Naim CD player using the SuperUniti just as an amp

[Dave2002]

Interesting. I have that Keilberth recording on the original mono Decca LPs. It was recorded live at the 1955 Bayreuth festival. I've just played the first side. There is a lot of audience chattering in the preamble brass chords before the overture starts: I havent noticed those chords in other recordings, I think it must be a Bayreuth way of telling the audience to be quiet because the overture is about to start. As I recall, the Bayreuth orchestra is invisible to the audience, so they wouldnt be able to see the conductor. There are a few live audience coughs, but nothing much. There is no noticeable low frequency or high frequency extraneous noise, and when the sailors start Hohoing, there is no noise of feet clumping. The sound is a bit boxy, but you soon adapt, and the brass has a wonderful rasp. It does look as if some new extraneous noises may have been introduced in the CD transfer process.

I always thought my LP set was in stereo, and the sailors definitely thump up and down on the platform. Those noises are not extraneous - they are part of the action. I didn't notice that for some time, as I listened on poor quality kit, but when I listened to the discs using my father's amp and bass reflex speakers the low bass became very obvious. It looks as though there was a stereo version - released separately - though one of the first CD releases was of the mono version.

See https://www.pristineclassical.com/paco062.html

Whether it would be possible to do any better by going back to the original sources is open to question - and assuming the material is on tape and not otherwise archived, the Pristine Classical approach may well be the best which can be done.

[rauschwerk]

A pianist myself, I naturally seek out recordings by artists who were either dead or past their prime before piano recording became as good as it is today. Some recordings I treasure are:-

Chopin Berceuse (Solomon, Testament remastering): sheer poetry;
Fauré Ballade (Kathleen Long, Boyd Neel, Dutton remastering): ditto;
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies (Brendel, Vanguard): the master tape seems to have degraded but the playing is electrifying.

Some companies (eg Warner) favour mid range boost which adds a nasty glare to 78 era recordings, and I am often grateful for my mid-range tone control.

[verismissimo]

I do have difficulty listening to recordings made using zinc plates (up to 1900/01). After the switch to wax, I'm usually amazed by the standards achieved by early recording engineers, given the technology at their disposal.

Here's Caruso singing Celeste Aida in 1902: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUKL89NRYcs

[Ferretfancy]

I do have difficulty listening to recordings made using zinc plates (up to 1900/01). After the switch to wax, I'm usually amazed by the standards achieved by early recording engineers, given the technology at their disposal.

Here's Caruso singing Celeste Aida in 1902: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUKL89NRYcs

It has been noticed that the earliest recordings were a success because they favoured the human voice. The mechanical characteristics of the recording horns and the primitive cutting technology matched the singer's voice spectrum quite well.

I used to own an Edison Phonograph with just a handful of cylinders, mostly reasonably sounding vocals with wonderfully wheezy orchestral backing, but considering that the stylus was a glass splinter it's a wonder that the machine worked at all !

[umslopogaas]

#55 Dave 2002. Its quite possible that a stereo tape exists. The official first releases in stereo were co-ordinated by the major companies in 1958, but they had been experimenting with stereo recording for some years before that. My Rare Classical Record Price Guide 2006 does not list a stereo version of LXT 5150-2 on LP, so perhaps Decca werent happy with the quality of their stereo recording at the time, but now with more modern technology they have managed to improve it enough to release it?

It wasnt "electronically re-processed for stereo" by any chance, was it? A lot of Decca Eclipse label LPs did this, they were mono era recordings doctored on reissue to make them a sort of fake stereo. I've yet to meet a hifi buff who has a good word for them, although the original recordings included some fine performances.

[Alain Maréchal]

I always thought my LP set was in stereo, and the sailors definitely thump up and down on the platform. Those noises are not extraneous - they are part of the action. I didn't notice that for some time, as I listened on poor quality kit, but when I listened to the discs using my father's amp and bass reflex speakers the low bass became very obvious. It looks as though there was a stereo version - released separately - though one of the first CD releases was of the mono version.
.

You always thought correctly, if your set was the Eclipse ECS LPs, which were issued in real stereo. Since some Eclipse issues were in fake stereo many collectors probably assumed these were.

I have just noticed umslopogas's (is that how I apostrophise it?, or s' ?) post, and I assure him and you that they were real. Some Eclipse reissues were just repressings of SXLs, and thus in good sound at bargain price.