Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

One consideration is whether you want the cuts in the finale. Perlman plays every note in his recorded versions, but normally makes the small cuts in live performances.

What do other forumites think of the cuts (assuming anyone's noticed them).

[richardfinegold]

I must start by confessing to not being a great Vengerov fan but I have just listened to his Tchaikovsky for the first time in ages and it is as I remembered, terrific facility and very sweet toned playing but lacking the inner emotional intensity that is so important in this work. Why not try it on a free download (Spotify?) and see what you think, compared with your list above, I think you at least find it an big contrast!

I will, thanks Mike, since I have a Spotify subscription. Recovering from Oral Surgery yesterday my daughter was staying with me. She is a huge Star Wars fan so we passed the time playing Zubin Mehta conducting some of John Williams Suite, appended to Mehta's recording of The Planets. She was entranced by the celesta, so I played Chaik's Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy from a disc that I had with Oistrakh's recording of the VC up next. She enjoyed the whole 1+ hour of Tchaikovsky and I gave her the disc. Sharing music with your kids--the day passed so quickly I forgot to take the Narcotics they had given me to cover the pain of the extractions. Surely introducing people to Tchaikovsky is a more benign resolution to our drug addiction problem?

[richardfinegold]

What do other forumites think of the cuts (assuming anyone's noticed them).

I haven't got that Perlman recording, but I believe that Milstein takes the same cuts in his recording with Abbado. I don't really notice them. I am wondering who ade them. Was it Leopold Auer?

[mikealdren]

Welcome back Richard, hope your mouth is recovering ok and glad you're passing on music to another generation.

The cuts were fairly universal until relatively recently and, having grown up with them, I'm relatively unconcerned, they are not great and I find the repeated phrases in the last movement still seem a little odd, those who learned the music without the cuts doubtless think the opposite!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, it was Leopoldo Auer who revised the finale, but the cuts are very small and I think tighten the structure by removing unnecessary repetitions. I'm no advocate of presumptuous outsiders (like Drigo in Swan Lake) jumping in and taking over, but Auer's edition of the Violin Concerto makes a good work even better imo.

[soileduk]

I

This Thread put me in mind of the first recording of the work (and one the first records I ever bought) I ever owned - the ten inch LP of the work played by Ralph Holmes with the Nuremberg PO conducted by Othmar Maga that came with the magazine The Great Composers; Tchaikovsky (Part One) and which I bought for 50p from Tesco in Blackburn on my way to a double bill of Dr No and From Russia With Love at the Odeon one Saturday afternoon in 1972. It was a favourite record of mine (and of my father's - I came home from school early one day and found him playing it; my "poncey music" was something he would violently avoid normally) - and I was delighted to see that it was given three stars in the first paperback (white cover) edition of the Penguin Guide.

I still have it - the magazine was written by Martin Cooper (author of Beethoven - the Last Decade and father of pianist Imogen) - but hadn't played it for decades; first because of the surface scratches, later because I don't have a turntable. I had seen a CD transfer in Eastbourne Our Price in the early '90s, but hadn't bought it, and it had gone when I next looked. I've never been able to find that CD transfer - until this Thread! Amazon seemed to have nothing - until I put "Ralph Holmes" as a general Search title, and an item with the unpromising heading "Not Found - Tchaikovsky's Greatest Hits". Looking further, musicMagpie had a tiny photo of the cover, and it was the CD I had passed by a quarter of a century ago. So, for 20p (+ P&P) I ordered a copy.

And it is a marvellous performance - not just from the wonderful soloist, but also from the orchestra, which brings out a real punch in the Music; a really exciting rhythmic drive, and some superb ensemble and orchestral soloistic playing. The slow movement is a little "straight" (just a sprinkle more imagination - such as Milstein provides - and this would have been a real winner) but the outer Movements give anyone a good run for their money. (Like Milstein and others, Holmes avoids those stammering little repetitions in the first group of the last movement - always a good idea, I think).

It is now available for 19p less than I paid - and I thoroughly recommend it to anyone who loves this work. Buy it with the attitude "Well, at a penny (+ £1.26 P&P) it's not going to be to great a loss", and you'll be in exactly the right frame of mind to be bowled over by the performance.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B003461N30/

(The rest of the disc isn't much of a buy - an abbreviated [Flowers-less] Nutcracker Suite and a complete 1812 conducted by Serebrier - on an off-day, plus bits and pieces and excerpts. I doubt that I'll ever play those tracks again.)

Took a punt on this Ferney.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Took a punt on this Ferney.

- I'll be interested to see what you think of it, soileduk.

[pastoralguy]

I

Took a punt on this Ferney.

Me too. I'd be really interested to hear Ralph Holmes in this, my most beloved of concertos. I only heard Holmes live once with the SNO in the late 70's or early 80's. He played the Mendelssohn concerto under Sir Alex Gibson, iirc. A very fine player who left us too early.

Thanks for the link.

[pastoralguy]

Cuts?

I've always disliked the stuttering 'extra' notes and feel it simply holds the music up. However, my Igor Oistrakh performance under his father employed the cuts so, I suppose that's where my initial perception of the piece grew from.

Gramophone reviewers always use the phrase "...Xxx opens up the tiny cuts in the finale..."

[Dave2002]

Me too. I'd be really interested to hear Ralph Holmes in this, my most beloved of concertos. I only heard Holmes live once with the SNO in the late 70's or early 80's. He played the Mendelssohn concerto under Sir Alex Gibson, iirc. A very fine player who left us too early.

Thanks for the link.

You might find this link of interest too - https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...s=Ralph+Holmes

I didn't know that RH had done the Beethoven sonatas with a fortepiano. Plus some other material - including Hummel and Delius.

Re the Tchaikovsky, currently showing as 52p, but of course one does not actually know what is being sold. I put in "Ralph Holmes Tchaivkovsky" in Amazon, CD and Vinyl, and found an mp3 - and also the Not Found CD "listing" - with no details. The mp3 is clearly the Tchaikovsky concerto.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I didn't know that RH had done the Beethoven sonatas with a fortepiano. Plus some other material - including Hummel and Delius.

Yes - the Delius Sonatas were recorded for the Unicorn-Kanchana Delius edition with Eric Fenby playing the piano; and Vernon Handley conducts the RPO in his recording of tye works for Violin and orchestra (not, alas, the Double Concerto). There's also the Hamilton Harty Violin Concerto with Bryden Thomson and the Ulster orchestra. Many thanks for highlighting his other recordings, too

He was a marvellous violinist - one of the very best this country has produced, and died far too early aged only 47. Like pasty, I only heard him once in concert - in 1974/5 with the BBC Northern under Raymond Leppard playing the Beethoven Concerto: including joining in with the opening orchestral tutti. I always remember this whenever I see a soloist in the work gazing self-consciously/with a vapid smile/scowling into the rafters waiting for their "first" solo.

Re the Tchaikovsky, currently showing as 52p, but of course one does not actually know what is being sold. I put in "Ralph Holmes Tchaivkovsky" in Amazon, CD and Vinyl, and found an mp3 - and also the Not Found CD "listing" - with no details. The mp3 is clearly the Tchaikovsky concerto.

Yes - the three 1p versions (including the copy that included a photo of the CD cover) have all gone - but even at £1.99 new, it's a bargain. Haven't heard the mp3 - but that's £7.99.

[Dave2002]

There is a download version on eMusic - http://www.emusic.com/album/nurember...no-1/13165597/ £2.52

It's also on Spotify, which I try not to use much now as it does cause my MBP to become hot. Search for "Ralph Holmes Tchaikovsky".
This might also work - https://open.spotify.com/track/2jaxIFDW9F70RqoNDZtUdp

Not sure about Napster yet. It is on - https://app.napster.com/artist/ralph...tra-in-d-major
(playing right now...)

Not sure about Qobuz .....

I think the Beethoven sonatas and the Hummel, and some of the Bryden Thompson conducted works are on Qobuz. The search feature seems rubbish right now - I don't remember Qobuz being that bad before. I couldn't find the Tchaikovsky - but that doesn't mean it's not there.

What's the status of Qobuz now anyway?

I've been listening to some of Ralph Holmes' Beethoven sonata recordings on Qobuz. Is there any way of getting a workable link for any recording on Qobuz, as it is possible to do with Napster and Spotify?

[richardfinegold]

Listened to the Vengerov on Spotify yesterday, and it is pretty much as Mike Aldren had described; a low voltage, sweet and caressing approach that borders on soporific. I had thought that Vengerov had issued a new recordings since his return to concertizing, but apparently not. I heard Vengerov last year in Concert and I hadthoughtthere was an urgency to his playing, with a somewhat quicker vibrato, than before his injury, and if he re records the Tchaikovsky I would be interested in the results

[Dave2002]

I also tried to find a BAL recommendation from a previous year, but all I found was this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00jhm5l

This recommends Mullova for Sibelius, and the coupling is Tchaikovsky.

[pastoralguy]

I'm currently listening to a reel to reel tape of the Tchaikovsky played by Tossy Spivakovsky with the LSO under Alexander Goehr. Very fine playing although, unlike my Oistrakh tape, this one is in mono and is quite low-fi.
The orchestral contribution is a tad 'laboured'.

I must investigate to see if it's available on cd.

No. No sign of a cd reissue although I'm sure I have a cd of his Sibelius recording.

It does seem to be available on vinyl which is a shame since it's a very convincing performance. Probably no chance of it ever resurfacing on silver disc.