Brahms Symphony Cycles

[Beef Oven!]

... well, yes, I can understand that you fell under the spell of those particular players - but once they had gone on to other things, why did you wish to follow that team?

Perhaps it's just that I don't get this 'following' thing...

Then others came, Dennis Law, Eric Cantona, Ryan Giggs, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, David Beckham, Peter Scmichael Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Ole Gunnar Solskjær, Peter Schmeichel, David De Gea .................... Ok, the trail’s gone cold now :sad face:

Back on topic, the Haitink Brahms 2 LSO Live has also arrived. I think I will investigate H’s Concertgebouw, too on the strength of this performance.

Anyone familiar with Haitink’s Brahms?

[visualnickmos]

...but I have been struggling a very long time now!

Fight the good fight, and ye shall surely see the light (or something like that!) (or maybe nothing at like that!)

[pastoralguy]

I saw Georgie Best giving the opposition twisted blood and Bobby Charlton commanding whole games, as a little kid in the 1960s. That did it for me.

My father told me he saw George Best play for a Scottish team (Hibs or Hearts?) on a Cold New Year's Day match in the 70's. He said that Best was obviously hungover, unfit and wasn't really interested but he STILL had more skill than the other 21 players put together! I remember him saying that, very occasionally, Best would show some interest and there would be a glimmer of his old magic for a few moments.

[Beef Oven!]

My father told me he saw George Best play for a Scottish team (Hibs or Hearts?) on a Cold New Year's Day match in the 70's. He said that Best was obviously hungover, unfit and wasn't really interested but he STILL had more skill than the other 21 players put together! I remember him saying that, very occasionally, Best would show some interest and there would be a glimmer of his old magic for a few moments.

[Petrushka]

Then others came, Dennis Law, Eric Cantona, Ryan Giggs, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, David Beckham, Peter Scmichael Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Ole Gunnar Solskjær, Peter Schmeichel, David De Gea .................... Ok, the trail’s gone cold now :sad face:

Back on topic, the Haitink Brahms 2 LSO Live has also arrived. I think I will investigate H’s Concertgebouw, too on the strength of this performance.

Anyone familiar with Haitink’s Brahms?

The Haitink Brahms 2 is easily the finest in an otherwise rather lacklustre cycle with the LSO and one I keep returning to. His Concertgebouw cycle is first rate and you get all of the concertos and Hungarian Dances in a bargain box. For the symphonies alone I'd seek out the Bosion SO recordings if you can get them. They are very fine indeed.

I saw the Manchester United team play Stoke City in 1971 and all the great players were there including George Best, Bobby Charlton & co. Gordon Banks was in goal for Stoke.

How on earth has a discussion on the Brahms symphonies deviated to Manchester United?????

[Beef Oven!]

The Haitink Brahms 2 is easily the finest in an otherwise rather lacklustre cycle with the LSO and one I keep returning to. His Concertgebouw cycle is first rate and you get all of the concertos and Hungarian Dances in a bargain box. For the symphonies alone I'd seek out the Bosion SO recordings if you can get them. They are very fine indeed.

I saw the Manchester United team play Stoke City in 1971 and all the great players were there including George Best, Bobby Charlton & co. Gordon Banks was in goal for Stoke.

How on earth has a discussion on the Brahms symphonies deviated to Manchester United?????

Whilst I can just about handle the amazing gigs you’ve been to without getting too envious, but posting about that game you saw in 1971, including Banksy, is a bit below the belt!

I saw those Boston Haitink Brahms, and because they seemed unavailable, I moved on. Worth checking out, you say?

The Jurowski 1&2 also arrived today and 3&4 on their way (13 CDs arrived today, including a 2 piano version of Bruckner 9 that I want to get my ears round, but I got distracted with the music from SA’s Cafe OTO thread).

I got the Skrowaczweski 1-4 very cheap, so I’m going to listen to 3&4 from that at some point tonight.

Great thread, btw.

[teamsaint]

Whilst I can just about handle the amazing gigs you’ve been to without getting too envious, but posting about that game you saw in 1971, including Banksy, is a bit below the belt!

I saw those Boston Haitink Brahms, and because they seemed unavailable, I moved on. Worth checking out, you say?

The Jurowski 1&2 also arrived today and 3&4 on their way (13 CDs arrived today, including a 2 piano version of Bruckner 9 that I want to get my ears round, but I got distracted with the music from SA’s Cafe OTO thread).

I got the Skrowaczweski 1-4 very cheap, so I’m going to listen to 3&4 from that at some point tonight.

Great thread, btw.

I saw Charlton , Best, Law etc at the Dell in 1971.
it was a 1-1 draw in the cup. my first time in the Milton Road too, where the bigger lads stood.Jimmy Gabriel scored for Saints.

I bought the Haitink LSO #2 on Pet's recommendation ( IIRC), and gave it a spin this afternoon. very good, glorious sound.

[Beef Oven!]

I saw Charlton , Best, Law etc at the Dell in 1971.
it was a 1-1 draw in the cup. my first time in the Milton Road too, where the bigger lads stood.Jimmy Gabriel scored for Saints.

I bought the Haitink LSO #2 on Pet's recommendation ( IIRC), and gave it a spin this afternoon. very good, glorious sound.

Was Johannes there?

[P. G. Tipps]

That's Mahler, surely?

No, actually it's Mahler who I'd describe as 'overwrought'?

Brahms is concise and perfectly well-argued ( except in no. 1).

I'm sure you're right ... I'll just have to keep on trying to comprehend the argument!

[Beef Oven!]

I’ve been listening to (and buying) an awful lot of Brahms symphonies in the past week, and it’s really beginning to click.

Some random thoughts.

There are way too many tunes! On a 3 hour cycle ride in the week, I was driven to distraction by about a thousand different earworms from the symphonies and at one point I couldn’t drive the tune from the very beginning of the fourth movement of the second symphony from my brain, not even for a second!

I don’t know a rising fifth from a rissole, but I know that this music so well made it’s scary! And those tunes are not gratuitous, they develop naturally out of the music - amazing.

The symphonies suffer from the absence of a proper slow movement. This is definitely something that contributed to my inability to love these works, down the years.

No.1 is overwrought, no, in fact it’s plain silly (especially how it turns into a pastiche of LvB 9 at the end WHAT WAS HE THINKING OF!!!!).

Karajan is a much better Brahms conductor than he’s given credit for.

If I had had the Skroweczewski cycle 25 years ago (rather than Abbado), it might have been different. At the time it was a toss up between Abbado (£32 or £65.64 at today’s prices using the calculator teamsaint posted), or Sawallisch (at £13 or £26.67 at todays prices). Muggins got taken in with the post-Karajan marketing spiel. I listened to the Sawallisch on Spotify and wasn’t that impressed. Can’t see what all the fuss is about.

Monteux’s 1959 VPO Brahms 2 is sooo good.

I really like Haitink’s LSO live #2.

I listened to Abbado’s BPO #3 earlier today, and although I found 1 & 2 from this set very, very, boring earlier this week, I really enjoyed it and think it’s an excellent performance with some extremely impressive playing from the BPO.



End

[Petrushka]

Glad to hear that Brahms has finally clicked, BeefO. The two piano concertos were tough nuts to crack for me, much harder than the symphonies in fact, but I love them as well now. Perhaps you could follow the same route?

I've been inspired to invest in Szell's cycle this week and am also awaiting delivery of the Rudolf Kempe/Munich Philharmonic set for impending birthday in eight days time.

[Beef Oven!]

Glad to hear that Brahms has finally clicked, BeefO. The two piano concertos were tough nuts to crack for me, much harder than the symphonies in fact, but I love them as well now. Perhaps you could follow the same route?

I've been inspired to invest in Szell's cycle this week and am also awaiting delivery of the Rudolf Kempe/Munich Philharmonic set for impending birthday in eight days time.

I’m going to have a go at the piano concertos next. I have had the Gilels performances on my shelf for nearly 25 years, played a handful of times.

Heard good things about Szell (may way into Mahler 4 & 6 back in the day).

My Barbirolli VPO set hasn’t arrived yet.

[kea]

My first recommendation for the Brahms symphonies as a cycle is, and probably will remain, Kertész/VPO. The naturalness and flow of the music-making are unparalleled and tied to very coherent and moving emotional and narrative trajectories. It would never occur to me to try to classify Kertész's interpretations as Classic (in the manner of e.g. van Beinum) or Romantic (in the manner of e.g. Furtwängler), as slow and in the grand manner (e.g. Giulini, Kubelík/BRSO) or as driven and energetic (e.g. Mackerras, Jochum/LPO)—the performances strike an ideal balance between all of those things, I think. Of course, if you prefer one of those particular interpretive types you can also check out the other names I mentioned.

Second recommendation, and only because of mono sound and some missing repeats, is Kempe/BPO—slightly more on the driven side, and therefore even preferable in e.g. no. 3, but otherwise similar in its balance. Joint second recommendation is Walter/NYPO, and again, only for the same reasons. (The Walter/CSO cycle is in better sound, and with a more successful 3rd, but the 1st and 4th are not as good. Best of all is Walter's VPO 3rd, as close as is possible to come to Brahms himself conducting when I'm in a fanciful mood, but recorded on a potato.)

Of the symphonies themselves the 3rd is by far my favourite, and probably one of my favourite symphonies by anyone.

[HighlandDougie]

Not sure if I would have had the stamina to attend this "Brahms-Marathon" but all four symphonies in one concert, given last Sunday by the NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchestra conducted by the rather under-rated Thomas Hengelbrock. Lovely sound as usual from this venue:

http://www.ndr.de/ndrkultur/epg/Brahms-Marathon-beim-Internationalen-Musikfest,sendung519674.html

[Beef Oven!]

Not sure if I would have had the stamina to attend this "Brahms-Marathon" but all four symphonies in one concert, given last Sunday by the NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchestra conducted by the rather under-rated Thomas Hengelbrock. Lovely sound as usual from this venue:

http://www.ndr.de/ndrkultur/epg/Brah...ung519674.html

Great link, HD. Many thanks indeed.

Do you know how long these remain up for? And is it a regular thing?