Brahms Symphony Cycles

[P. G. Tipps]

I’m beginning to get it, Petrushka.

I must say I found Brahms boring, but I’m coming round to his music as very thrusting and dare I say, macho?

Not Bruckner though, is it?

I have struggled with Brahms all my life. He is probably just too sophisticated for me.

I love Mahler's alleged quote when discussing Brahms & Bruckner ... 'Oh, these two old rascals ... one's music is way over-cooked and the other's hasn't even been put in the oven yet!'

[Beef Oven!]

I have struggled with Brahms all my life. He is probably just too sophisticated for me.

I love Mahler's alleged quote when discussing Brahms & Bruckner ... 'Oh, these two old rascals ... one's music is way over-cooked and the other's hasn't even been put in the oven yet!'

Hadn’t come across that before!!

[Richard Barrett]

Isn’t Brahms’ symphony #1 overwrought?

Terribly terribly overwrought. The first couple of minutes are amazing but after that it forgets all about them, and can't decide on what sort of piece it is until the Finale becomes a pale echo of Beethoven's 9th.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Mackerras and Gardiner. Those are the only two recorded Brahms cycles I ever listen to (well actually I only ever listen to the Second if the truth be told). Brahms's orchestral writing always has too much unnecessary padding for me, but these conductors almost make the listener forget about it. Manze too, maybe, though I haven't heard his discs.

[mathias broucek]

Regarding the Karajan live RFH on testament, I’ve had that CD since it was first released and I agree with everyone how great it is. However, I enjoy HvK’s 1955 #2 on EMI, much more. I think this is more about the music than the performance. Isn’t Brahms’ symphony #1 overwrought?

Arguably they make a nicely complementary pair!

[Beef Oven!]

Terribly terribly overwrought. The first couple of minutes are amazing but after that it forgets all about them, and can't decide on what sort of piece it is until the Finale becomes a pale echo of Beethoven's 9th.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Mackerras and Gardiner. Those are the only two recorded Brahms cycles I ever listen to (well actually I only ever listen to the Second if the truth be told). Brahms's orchestral writing always has too much unnecessary padding for me, but these conductors almost make the listener forget about it. Manze too, maybe, though I haven't heard his discs.

Mackerras is on my listen-list. I heard a very small section of Brahms 2 by Gardiner on the Brahms 2 BaL and I was unsure about the leanness - may have been a relative thing, given all the preceding Klemperers, Karajans and Jochums!

Your summary of Brahms 1 is what my ears hear!

[cloughie]

Terribly terribly overwrought. The first couple of minutes are amazing but after that it forgets all about them, and can't decide on what sort of piece it is until the Finale becomes a pale echo of Beethoven's 9th.

I've never thought of it as overwrought. ...and it least the finale is not ruined by added words!

[Richard Barrett]

...and at least the finale is not ruined by added words!

That is a blessing to be sure.

[Barbirollians]

I've never thought of it as overwrought. ...and it least the finale is not ruined by added words!

Unlike that shocking work Mahler 2.

[BBMmk2]

Nay, nay and thrice nay! Brahms is full of surging passion and anything but plain or boring. Once these kind of misconceptions take root they are awfully difficult to shake off. Give them another go, BBM, and listen afresh.

Okey doke, Barbs! I will! :)

[cloughie]

Unlike that shocking work Mahler 2.

Jonny Mac - Mahler 2 is wonderful!

[Beef Oven!]

Jonny Mac - Mahler 2 is wonderful!

Jimmy Mac - I ain’t comin’ back!

[Beef Oven!]

I have listened to some of the Abbado BPO set that I bought 23/24 years ago, and I think I will blame Claudio for some of my Brahms problem. Although the performance are very good indeed and the BPO is playing wonderfully and really trying to show it has a life after Herbert, it’s all very, very, very boring!!

[pastoralguy]

I really surprised that connoisseurs here don't like Brahms! He's definitely in my top 5 of favourite composers and the symphonies spoke to me from the very beginning.

I'm currently listening to Guilini's Brahms' 1 that was recorded live with the Symphonie-Orchestra des Bayerischen Rundfunks on Hanssler Classics. Oh my goodness, those contra faggot moments...

[P. G. Tipps]

Oh my goodness, those contra faggot moments...

Maybe I am, not for the first time here, in a minority of one but can you explain, without being too explicit, exactly what is a 'contra faggot' moment?

[Beef Oven!]

I really surprised that connoisseurs here don't like Brahms! He's definitely in my top 5 of favourite composers and the symphonies spoke to me from the very beginning.

I'm currently listening to Guilini's Brahms' 1 that was recorded live with the Symphonie-Orchestra des Bayerischen Rundfunks on Hanssler Classics. Oh my goodness, those contra faggot moments...

I agree, it seems strange. For me everything was going swimmingly. Chaikovsky symphonies, yep great. Dvorak symphonies, love e’m, Beethoven, Mozart - no-brainers. Sibelius, thumbs-up. Then Brahms. Hmm, I’ll come back to them. And whenever I did, the feeling was the same. It’s only the last week or so that #2 has clicked. #4 is coming into focus, too. I’m confident I’ll get my head around #3. I’m not terribly optimistic about #1.

As for the two piano concertos, I think that’s going to be very difficult. I could never stand them, rarely getting through to the end (although to be fair, I played #2 a couple of weeks ago when the forum was chatting about them, and it wasn’t half as bad as I remembered. I bought two DG Galleria CDs donkey’s years ago (Emil Gilels, Eugen Jochum, BPO)).

Edit: I never found Schumann and Mendelssohn easy. I blew hot and cold over Schumann, but of late it’s hot all the way. My Baroque/Early forays brought me to the Sturm und Drang of Kraus, Haydn et al and that has kinda bridged the gap to Mendelssohn, who I now find agreeable (I’m thinking of symphonies).