Menuhin recordings

[visualnickmos]

How interesting - this recording has received generally a bad press over the years and is as far as I can tell the only studio recording of Menuhin in the Beethoven concerto I do not have - having the Furtwanglers, the Silvestri, the Masur and the self directed version released a few years back as well as the terrific BBC legends performance conducted by Oistrakh and the live Testament version with Klemperer which I did enjoy but which takes a while to warm up .

Tempted now to get it and make my own judgment

That really is the only way

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That really is the only way

[mathias broucek]

I can't handle that version at all. The intonation is just too far off....

[pastoralguy]

My most treasured Menuhin recording is a cd from the 30's of the Lekeu sonata that he made with his sister, Hepzhibah. IMHO, it contains some of the greatest fiddle playing ever committed to disc. Such passionate , spontaneous playing, it never fails to bring strong emotions to the surface. There's a moment at the work's climax where Yehudi misses a position change on the G string for a split second which, under today's conditions would no doubt have a modern producer saying 'Yehudi, let's try those two bars again and we'll drop them in. Less passion and more accuracy'. No such faking in the 30's and the result is some of the very greatest music making.

[pastoralguy]

I'm now listening to Ralph Holmes playing the Delius Violin concerto. There's no doubt it's a more 'accurate' performance but, IMHO, it doesn't capture the sheer magic that Menuhin brings to it, warts and all.

Here's a question. Suppose I bought a cd of the Delius violin concerto by modern virtuoso such as Ehnes, Jansen, Vengerov or Vilde Frang and the the intonation was lousy from the start? Throughout the recording the intonation was dubious, the bowing was laboured and it sounded like a jet lagged off day. I'd probably send it back and wait for the poor reviews in Gramophone, BBC Music Magazine, Amazon and here.

Well, OK, it's not likely to happen but whilst Menuhin's recording is 'guilty' of any amount of flaws it contains moments of sheer magic. The fact that I can type this whilst listening to Holmes shows that that, while he was a great musician, I can only listen to Menuhin and pay total attention.

As Isaac Stern said, 'A great violinist demands your ears!

So, at what point do technical shortcomings cease to matter?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So, at what point do technical shortcomings cease to matter?

For whom?

My chief point of contention with your post is that I find nothing "magical" in the Menuhin recording: the soloist's poor intonation repulses me, the forward balance of the solo distorts Delius' marvellous orchestration, and Meredith Davies leads a perfunctory read-through of the score. It is Holmes who provides the real magic: fully in command of the part and aware of the Music that he contributes towards. His playing sings, soars and dances in ways that make Menuhin sound earthbound. And Handley is so much better a conductor - and the RPO respond to this; their playing here is in such a higher league than it is for Davies.

"A great violinist demands your ears"? Pshaw! It's great Music that really demands this - and demands your mind and soul, too. I go to the Delius violin concerto for what Delius wanted me to hear - there's no "magic" for me if I'm given anything less.

[visualnickmos]

I'm now listening to Ralph Holmes playing the Delius Violin concerto. There's no doubt it's a more 'accurate' performance but, IMHO, it doesn't capture the sheer magic that Menuhin brings to it, warts and all.

Here's a question. Suppose I bought a cd of the Delius violin concerto by modern virtuoso such as Ehnes, Jansen, Vengerov or Vilde Frang and the the intonation was lousy from the start? Throughout the recording the intonation was dubious, the bowing was laboured and it sounded like a jet lagged off day. I'd probably send it back and wait for the poor reviews in Gramophone, BBC Music Magazine, Amazon and here.

Well, OK, it's not likely to happen but whilst Menuhin's recording is 'guilty' of any amount of flaws it contains moments of sheer magic. The fact that I can type this whilst listening to Holmes shows that that, while he was a great musician, I can only listen to Menuhin and pay total attention.

As Isaac Stern said, 'A great violinist demandsyour ears!

So, at what point do technical shortcomings cease to matter?

Very interesting points and the last (question) is perhaps unanswerable.... I am in no position to say, but I am very interested. I hope we get some equally interesting responses and comments on here.

[pastoralguy]

For whom?

My chief point of contention with your post is that I find nothing "magical" in the Menuhin recording: the soloist's poor intonation repulses me, the forward balance of the solo distorts Delius' marvellous orchestration, and Meredith Davies leads a perfunctory read-through of the score. It is Holmes who provides the real magic: fully in command of the part and aware of the Music that he contributes towards. His playing sings, soars and dances in ways that make Menuhin sound earthbound. And Handley is so much better a conductor - and the RPO respond to this; their playing here is in such a higher league than it is for Davies.

"A great violinist demands your ears"? Pshaw! It's great Music that really demands this - and demands your mind and soul, too. I go to the Delius violin concerto for what Delius wanted me to hear - there's no "magic" for me if I'm given anything less.

And, normally, I would agree with you. But, for this one recording, I suspend disbelief and feel that Mehunin captured a magic that I don't hear with others. I have a pile of CDs of the Delius concerto beside me which, time allowing, I'll work through but I don't to find the magic that Menuhin brings. If I DO find one, I'll be delighted.

[Barbirollians]

There are some magical moments in that Menuhin recording but the allegretto is very effortful and scratchy .

The Holmes IMO is magnificent -in a class of its own ( good as Pougnet , Little etc are ) and as fhgl says Handley was a very fine Delius conductor - his CfP recordings were my introduction to Delius luckily for me .

The Unicorn Kanchana recording coupled with the Suite and Legende I played incessantly at one time . I have a very clear memory of listening to it on my Walkman climbing Mont St Victoire near Aix en Provence ( for any non-Cezanne fans ) as a 17 year old about to do my A Levels - which maybe why I love the recording so much .

[pastoralguy]

If I DO find one, I'll be delighted.

Im delighted! I've just put Tasmin Little's Chandos disc with Sir Andrew Davis and the BBCSO. The recording is, inevitably, much better and, yes, I can appreciate that the orchestral part is far better than Menuhin's.

[Barbirollians]

Im delighted! I've just put Tasmin Little's Chandos disc with Sir Andrew Davis and the BBCSO. The recording is, inevitably, much better and, yes, I can appreciate that the orchestral part is far better than Menuhin's.

All so subjective - Little is good but Holmes's recording is far more ethereal and magical IMO .

[EdgeleyRob]

So, at what point do technical shortcomings cease to matter?

I don't know but I wonder if they matter less to a non musician (for example me)?

I'm with PG re the Delius,it's not that I don't know that the intonation problems are there but the performance is so magical I simply don't hear them.

Some off the beaten track favourite Menuhin records hereabouts would be

Elgar,RVW and Walton violin sonatas (EMI),some dodgy intonation moments in the Elgar and less than perfect 1950s sound in the Walton but again the sheer musicality transcends the shortcomings.

Lennox Berkeley,Williamson and Panufnik violin concertos (EMI),just amazing.

As a conductor,there's a wonderful RVW 5 with the LPO c/w the 2 piano arrangement of the piano concerto.

[Barbirollians]

I love the fact that the Menuhin talk was unceremoniously removed from the Delius thread for being off topic and now we are talking about the Delius concerto and not Menuhin !

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I love the fact that the Menuhin talk was unceremoniously removed from the Delius thread for being off topic and now we are talking about the Delius concerto and not Menuhin !

- sticking specifically to Menuhin's Delius Concerto:

There are some magical moments in that Menuhin recording but the allegretto is very effortful and scratchy .

Yes - and it should be a comic moment, too. Delius rarely did jokes, but the portentous brass "fanfares" which seem to lead up to some noble "grand statement", followed by this skippy little tune in the woodwinds, with the solo violin accompanying them - it's almost like Dohnannyi's Nursery Tune. Not alas here.

[pastoralguy]

I've never rated the Delius violin concerto at all but, thanks to last Saturday's BaL and the discussion here, I've listened to it at least a dozen times now! I'm now seeing that I've totally mis-judged it and am willing to admit it to my own personal list of great works.

So, although 'Sea Breeze' is unlikely to figure highly on my list of fav pieces, it has served as a starting gun for an appraisal of Delius' music.