Menuhin recordings

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

7 The Menuhin in Japan from 1951 recordings just before his technique issues struck in the late 1950s .

Gosh! Was it really as early as this?

[Barbirollians]

I completely agree that YM's commissioning of the solo violin sonata was a very important event in Bartók's generally ghastly final years - and Menuhin's interpretation of that piece is certainly significant (his first recording of it, at least, is one I very much want to hear).

But as far as the Second Violin Concerto is concerned, it was Szekely who asked Bartók to write it in the first place (and who gave the prem in Amsterdam), and the first US performance was given by Tossy Spivakovsky and Rodzinski in Cleveland in 1943. Bartók himself heard that (the first time he heard a live performance of the piece) and he wrote a letter to Szigeti expressing his delight at the way it sounded. Spivakovsky later played it with Monteux and others. Menuhin played it in Los Angeles (with Dorati) in August 1945 (not sure if that was the first time he had played it), and yes, he discussed the concerto with Bartók himself in 1943 in New York, and made the first recording - after Bartók's death.

So there are significant associations. I'm not arguing with that, but all I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure Menuhin's performances have any more authority than the likes of Szekely, Spivakovsky and André Gertler (another friend of the composer).

I am not saying that they do have any more authority but the point remains he had a significant connection to Bartok at the very end of his life and made the premiere recording ( I do not count a recovered live performance as a premiere recording as neither Szekely or Mengelberg intended it to be ) of the work . Hence , his performance is one that I should expect most interested in Bartok to want to hear and it is exceptionally fine as is the 1947 account of the solo sonata on Naxos .

The Furtwangler is fascinating because it is Furtwangler conducting outside his comfort zone - to my ears anyway .

[Barbirollians]

Gosh! Was it really as early as this?

I think I recall reading that it was late 1950s that he started to have issues with his shoulder ?

[makropulos]

I think I recall reading that it was late 1950s that he started to have issues with his shoulder ?

That must be about right - the evidence is occasionally starting to be audible in some of the recordings from c.1960, don't you think?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Menuhin' close relationship with the composer and as dedicatee of the solo violin sonata makes his interpretation highly important in the history of Bartok performance in my opinion and I am of the view that he lets the music speak for itself especially in 1946 in a way that escapes many other performers anxious to impose their own imprint on the music.

I completely agree that YM's commissioning of the solo violin sonata was a very important event in Bartók's generally ghastly final years - and Menuhin's interpretation of that piece is certainly significant (his first recording of it, at least, is one I very much want to hear).

Well, yes - but with the considerable caveat that Menuhin doesn't play the microtonal passage that Bartok wrote, and thus deprives us of some of the very special "tang" of that Music. Ironic, when one considers all the microtonal "inflexions" that he adds to the Delius Concerto!

But, not wanting to take the Thread off-topic and onto Delius - my favourite Menuhin recordings:

Elgar Concerto with the composer
Bach solo partitas & sonatas (the MONO set)
Beethoven, Mendelssohn and Brahms with Furtwangler
Bartok #2 with Dorati

... there are others that I have great affection for, but these are the ones that make me hold my breath.

[Barbirollians]

That must be about right - the evidence is occasionally starting to be audible in some of the recordings from c.1960, don't you think?

Yes very much so - albeit I see from a quick google search that some suggest there was some wobble in his tone much earlier . I recall also a suggestion that his problems with his shoulder exacerbated a problem with his technique blamed by some and possibly him on him having developed a similar bowing tremor to Ysaye due to putting too much weight on the first finger - something Persinger his teacher had learnt from Ysaye . I am not a violinist so not sure what that means in practice .

I do believe that when on top form there was no violinist greater and he could still have good days in his late career . I saw him play the Beethoven Concerto with Norman del Mar and the RPO in the early 1980s and the performance really took off .

[Barbirollians]

Well, yes - but with the considerable caveat that Menuhin doesn't play the microtonal passage that Bartok wrote, and thus deprives us of some of the very special "tang" of that Music. Ironic, when one considers all the microtonal "inflexions" that he adds to the Delius Concerto!

But, not wanting to take the Thread off-topic and onto Delius - my favourite Menuhin recordings:

Elgar Concerto with the composer
Bach solo partitas & sonatas (the MONO set)
Beethoven, Mendelssohn and Brahms with Furtwangler
Bartok #2 with Dorati

... there are others that I have great affection for, but these are the ones that make me hold my breath.

Which Dorati recording fhgl - there are three !

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Which Dorati recording fhgl - there are three !

The first was the one I was thinking of - the later/last EMI was the first I ever heard of the work itself (around the same time that I heard his Berg Concerto with Boulez - in this case, as with the Furtwangler/Bartok, fascinating to hear a great Musical mind trying to manipulate itself into a soundworld it isn't entirely "comfortable" in). Haven't heard the middle one.

[Barbirollians]

Going back to Menuhin in Japan - these are stupendous performances , unfortunately in really ropey sound apparently due to poor quality shellac as heard on the Biddulph release.

I see that for astronomical prices that one can obtain a later RCA pressing from 2005 . I wonder if anyone else has heard that . I hope that RCA also bring out their Menuhin recordings this year .

Update ! Yes they are - they are described as the American Victor recordings though so unclear if the Japanese sessions are included .

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/RCA/88875198542

[Bryn]

Going back to Menuhin in Japan - these are stupendous performances , unfortunately in really ropey sound apparently due to poor quality shellac as heard on the Biddulph release.

I see that for astronomical prices that one can obtain a later RCA pressing from 2005 . I wonder if anyone else has heard that . I hope that RCA also bring out their Menuhin recordings this year .

Update ! Yes they are - they are described as the American Victor recordings though so unclear if the Japanese sessions are included .

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/RCA/88875198542

Phew! Amazon UK want £39.39 for it!

[Barbirollians]

Just checked the listings and no sign of the Japanese recordings I am afraid . Still look forward to the rest of the set as I only have the Bartok 2 and the Lalo .

[makropulos]

Just checked the listings and no sign of the Japanese recordings I am afraid . Still look forward to the rest of the set as I only have the Bartok 2 and the Lalo .

It's a pity about the Japanese recordings. But the whole box looks extremely tempting (and includes some great rarities including a hitherto unreleased Spring and Kreutzer with Hepzibah from 1949). Definitely on the active shopping list - looks as if we have a couple of weeks to wait.

[visualnickmos]

Funnily enough, I had just put a CD in the machine, which arrived today. I decided to glance on here - saw this thread. Said CD being Beethoven's violin concerto with YM and Klemperer (plus a couple of the usual overture fill-ups) on HMV Classics (rec. 1966) at a price much less than the stamp

A recording I've been aware of for decades, but this is the first time I've ever heard it!
Love it - the first movement cadenza is fabulous - makes you want to get up and dance!!! The whole concerto is a superb balance of Klemperer's richness and fine sound, with YM's playful mastery. Getting to become quite fond of YM...

[gradus]

I enjoyed his conducting of the Enigma vars with the RPO especially the extraordinary recording level change in Nimrod (and elsewhere) that suits my vulgar taste perfectly. The whole thing is magnificent and up (?) there with Bernstein as a favourite version.
As soloist I love his Beethoven concerto with Furtwangler from the fifties and pretty much everything else, he was a truly great artist.

[Barbirollians]

Funnily enough, I had just put a CD in the machine, which arrived today. I decided to glance on here - saw this thread. Said CD being Beethoven's violin concerto with YM and Klemperer (plus a couple of the usual overture fill-ups) on HMV Classics (rec. 1966) at a price much less than the stamp

A recording I've been aware of for decades, but this is the first time I've ever heard it!
Love it - the first movement cadenza is fabulous - makes you want to get up and dance!!! The whole concerto is a superb balance of Klemperer's richness and fine sound, with YM's playful mastery. Getting to become quite fond of YM...

How interesting - this recording has received generally a bad press over the years and is as far as I can tell the only studio recording of Menuhin in the Beethoven concerto I do not have - having the Furtwanglers, the Silvestri, the Masur and the self directed version released a few years back as well as the terrific BBC legends performance conducted by Oistrakh and the live Testament version with Klemperer which I did enjoy but which takes a while to warm up .

Tempted now to get it and make my own judgment