Honeck's Beethoven 5 & 7...

[jayne lee wilson]

Sorry to stray from topic. I sometimes wonder whether the sound quality of SACD compatible CDs is compromised. I don't have an SACD player, but my Meridian 500 series machine gives excellent results on standard CD. Listening to the CD layer of an SACD disc, I notice a slightly steely quality, just a slight feeling of discomfort. I can cite a good example with the Suzuki recordings of Bach cantatas, where earlier discs in the series are smoother to my ears than the later ones which are SACD compatible.

Does anybody else notice an effect of this kind, or is it my imagination? Interestingly, Meridian claim that they do not support SACD, although they were pioneers of surround sound using ambisonic techniques.

Didn't I reply to this somewhere else? Anyway.

Meridian were - historically at least - keen technical advocates of DVD-A (i.e hi-res pcm, 24/96 and up, but on an actual physical disc) in the damp-squib format war with SACD... the DVD-A format was of course stymied by constant disagreements between its promoters about sonically-degrading copy-protection measures (some of which found their way, very audibly, onto CDs e.g. Warners Elatus) and about "backwards compatibility"... which led to those double-sided discs with CD on the other side, which some players didn't like at all (or it turned out, some prospective purchasers either...), and the need for a screen to navigate the TOC... all that just to play some music?
Latterly Meridian have put their weight behind another download format, MQA..... a whole other story.

As for SACDs, those recently discussed Blomstedt/Gewandhaus/Bruckner discs are hybrids of that kind, and they sound lovely here off of their CD layer.... despite some suspicions, I can't say I've consistently found sonic compromises with such issues.... the BIS Skalkottas and Dausgaard Schumann are fine too... it may be player dependent, but my transports are 1990s Krell and Marantz dedicated Redbook, and they sound fine with them.
But....
The other night, the Krell 300CD refused to play any track off that very Bruckner 2; I couldn't recall having the problem last year - perhaps I'd used the Marantz, I wasn't sure. So I slipped in the Marigo 3D Signature Mat (the Gold/Green one with 9 cut-outs, which I use wrong-way-up i.e gold side up).... and it played without a hitch. It can work, though the sound may change too, not necessarily in a way you'd like.
(Bear in mind that Krell recommend against such things due to the design of the TEAC transport...). So as I said upthread, if you have them around, it's always worth trying CD Mats on a difficult disc. Most transports won't mind - it will simply growl a bit, and/or come straight back out if incompatible - except I wouldn't try them in slot-loaders.

[Dave2002]

I've just ordered this Honeck / Beethoven 5&7 cd again in the hope that maybe this one'll work!

I'm almost losing track of this now. Why not simply rip the CD to hard drive and play from computer memory, if the CD is so hard to play? It's usually possible to get a good rip of a CD with most modern computer drives - even if the CD won't play, as it's possible to use software which will run the drive slowly and also do repeated error correction etc. SACDs are a bit harder because of the DSD formats, but I think even those can now be ripped with the right kit. This of course ignores the fact that techically ripping DCs or SACDs in the UK has become illegal again. It may also be possible to rip DVDs and Blu Rays of various formats, though I'm not sure.

Sorry - you do seem to be hitting your head repeatedly against a brick wall - though I do that sometimes too. Good luck!

[pastoralguy]

I'm almost losing track of this now. Why not simply rip the CD to hard drive and play from computer memory, if the CD is so hard to play? It's usually possible to get a good rip of a CD with most modern computer drives - even if the CD won't play, as it's possible to use software which will run the drive slowly and also do repeated error correction etc. SACDs are a bit harder because of the DSD formats, but I think even those can now be ripped with the right kit. This of course ignores the fact that techically ripping DCs or SACDs in the UK has become illegal again. It may also be possible to rip DVDs and Blu Rays of various formats, though I'm not sure.

Sorry - you do seem to be hitting your head repeatedly against a brick wall - though I do that sometimes too. Good luck!

Thanks Dave. I tried that and the copy just replicated the faults in different places.

[pastoralguy]

Anyway, it's happened AGAIN!

This time with the Pentatone recording of Mahler Song Cycles. Alice Coote, Netherlands Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Marc Albrecht.

Same problem. CD player struggles to find the access point to the track and then stops and starts every 10 seconds. I do have an SACD player I can rig up to my system so I'll try that.

So that's two SACDs my Quad machine won't play!

I've set up my SONY SACD machine and it's now working fine.

[jayne lee wilson]

Anyway, it's happened AGAIN!

This time with the Pentatone recording of Mahler Song Cycles. Alice Coote, Netherlands Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Marc Albrecht.

Same problem. CD player struggles to find the access point to the track and then stops and starts every 10 seconds. I do have an SACD player I can rig up to my system so I'll try that.

So that's two SACDs my Quad machine won't play!

I've set up my SONY SACD machine and it's now working fine.

If CD Mats are out.....Tried cleaning the lens...? Cotton Bud, isopropyl...? Kontak (rapid evaporation) works very well...

[Pianoman]

I have two friends with Quad CD players and both have complained of this type of fault....mind you, they still love the sound but I myself couldn’t put up with this sort of issue (my 20 odd year old Sony still plays anything you throw at it...)

[jayne lee wilson]

Did we ever find out what the transport mech is? Later Elites had a bespoke design, so.....
Still, get the lid off and see if the lens looks dusty or foggy. If so, see above.....

[pastoralguy]

Did we ever find out what the transport mech is? Later Elites had a bespoke design, so.....
Still, get the lid off and see if the lens looks dusty or foggy. If so, see above.....

I'm possibly trading my Quad equipment up in the New Year. Watch this space...

I got the new Chandos SACD Elgar 'Falstaff' with the BBC Phil. and Sir Andrew Davis and there are no problems with the Quad machine coping with it. I've just bought the complete DSCH symphonies on SACD, (Kitajenko), so I hope the Quad can handle them.

[richardfinegold]

Does your Sony SACD player play CDs as well? Do you have an external DAC?

[pastoralguy]

Does your Sony SACD player play CDs as well? Do you have an external DAC?

Oh yes but not nearly as well as the Quad machine. I'll simply leave the Sony SACD machine rigged up.

[richardfinegold]

[QUOTE=pastoralguy;655393]I'm possibly trading my Quad equipment up in the New Year. Watch this space...



You need to tell anyone that you sell to about the problem. I’ve read some accounts in Audiophile forums about dissatisfied buyers threatening all kinds of repercussions .
The CD layer resides slightly below the surface of the SACD layer. The laser has to adjust it’s angle. Your CDP may be salvageable but is it under warranty? If not the price may be a deterrent . The repair could be in the hundreds.
Let’s hear more about the Sony SACD Player. What is the model number? Does it have digital outs that can be used with an external DAC? If it does, and if the Quad excepts digital inputs, then you can use the use Sony as a transport and the DAC of the Quad.
Or the simplest....if the Quad plays red book CDs, and the Sony sounds acceptable with SACDs, and your amp can accept both inputs, then you are set

[pastoralguy]

[QUOTE=richardfinegold;655401]

I'm possibly trading my Quad equipment up in the New Year. Watch this space...



You need to tell anyone that you sell to about the problem. I’ve read some accounts in Audiophile forums about dissatisfied buyers threatening all kinds of repercussions .
The CD layer resides slightly below the surface of the SACD layer. The laser has to adjust it’s angle. Your CDP may be salvageable but is it under warranty? If not the price may be a deterrent . The repair could be in the hundreds.
Let’s hear more about the Sony SACD Player. What is the model number? Does it have digital outs that can be used with an external DAC? If it does, and if the Quad excepts digital inputs, then you can use the use Sony as a transport and the DAC of the Quad.
Or the simplest....if the Quad plays red book CDs, and the Sony sounds acceptable with SACDs, and your amp can accept both inputs, then you are set

Yes. I suppose I should advise anyone who buys it of the problem. I was intending on part exchanging it for an Ayon machine through my Hi-Fi dealer. I'll pop in over the next couple of days an consult although I will wait until I receive the next copy of the Honeck/Beethoven 5&7. Although it's only 2 discs out of the thousands it's played with no problem, (including some pretty beat up second hand ones), honesty is no doubt the best policy.

I've got the Quad and the Sony hooked up to the amp and both sound fine. The SONY is a SCD-XE670.

[soileduk]

http://quad-hifi.co.uk/contact.php

Don’t forget that as well as your 12 month guarantee you can still expect a reasonable product life under consumer regulations.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/quad-service.209484/#post-3263539

[mikealdren]

[QUOTE=pastoralguy;655413]

Yes. I suppose I should advise anyone who buys it of the problem. I was intending on part exchanging it for an Ayon machine through my Hi-Fi dealer. I'll pop in over the next couple of days an consult although I will wait until I receive the next copy of the Honeck/Beethoven 5&7. Although it's only 2 discs out of the thousands it's played with no problem, (including some pretty beat up second hand ones), honesty is no doubt the best policy.

I've got the Quad and the Sony hooked up to the amp and both sound fine. The SONY is a SCD-XE670.

Hi PG
If the problem is only with SACDs, there are few of them nowadays and I wouldn't want to change the Quad machine. Could you copy the CD layer on your PC and use that. When I used to play CDs, I had a fairly costly CD player and started on the DAC upgrade path. I found better DACs made a big difference. I now play from a custom built PC with all my CDs loaded to a hard disk like a jukebox. With a Chord Hugo DAC, the sound is fabulous and I suspect the sound is better playing off the hard disk than a CD player.

If you decide to upgrade, can you ask your dealer to let you try the new player at home on approval first?

[richardfinegold]

[QUOTE=mikealdren;655459]

Hi PG
If the problem is only with SACDs, there are few of them nowadays and I wouldn't want to change the Quad machine. Could you copy the CD layer on your PC and use that. When I used to play CDs, I had a fairly costly CD player and started on the DAC upgrade path. I found better DACs made a big difference. I now play from a custom built PC with all my CDs loaded to a hard disk like a jukebox. With a Chord Hugo DAC, the sound is fabulous and I suspect the sound is better playing off the hard disk than a CD player.

If you decide to upgrade, can you ask your dealer to let you try the new player at home on approval first?

I was resisting that suggestion to PG, because my perception is that like many of us, he is still oriented to physical media. The Hugo is a fabulous DAC but it is fairly costly. And while SACDs are an endangered media, it is the Classical Music world that has sustained them, thousands of Classical titles listed on Presto and Arkiv and new ones constantly being released. Most DACs can’t play SACDs-my Bryston DAC 3 is an exception, as it will take the DSD feed from SACDS spun on an Oppo Disc Player over HDMI—so if PG has a large SACD collection (or Blu Ray, or DVD-A) the expensive DAC will leave him in silence there.
My advice for PG would be to buy an Oppo 205, which goes for about $1200 here. It has a great DAC with a zillion inputs.
It plays everything, all the formats listed here and anything else. I use my 105 to play downloads via it’s usb inputs. It is a great Blu Ray video Player. It isn’t in Hugo territory as a DAC but I suspect that it will be an improvement over his Quad. The 205 is also a streamer and Media player so if PG moves into Computer based Audio he won’t have to bother with a PC or buying a separate Media player
Oops-I just checked the price of the Hugo and it goes for around $2K here, not as expensive as I thought, I must have confused it with the DAVE—but I would still by the Oppo. Btw the Oppo has a separate headphone stage that was supposedly upgraded with the 205 although the one in my 105 sounds fine by me.