Soviet era brass on CDR

[DracoM]

What a patronising pair!

'Gosh, isn't that jolly quaint of those Soviet chappies, all that brass - you can see them puffing out their cheeks! Gosh, those trombones! Nothing like our more discreet days.....' etc etc etc.

The sheer visceral excitement of some of the Soviet recordings sits pretty successfuly for me alongside the now so bland 'European', refined playing of Tchaikovsky.

Time to re-evaluate?

[Mr Pee]

I didn't find the remarks in the least patronising- on the contrary, I thought they were complimentary.

Although I did agree with Geoffrey Norris's comment about the "wobbly" French Horns and trumpets that used to be de rigeur in Soviet orchestras. For all the superb qualities of Mavrinsky's Tchaikovsky Symphonies, I'm afraid the wobbly brass playing is a major turn-off for me.

[rodney_h_d]

.....The sheer visceral excitement of some of the Soviet recordings sits pretty successfully for me alongside the now so bland 'European', refined playing of Tchaikovsky.....

DracoM - I have two sisters [as well as a brother] and was one of those who grew up almost thinking that Tchaikovsky only wrote ballet music - except for that "rather vulgar" piano concerto! I took up the violin and got to know the violin concerto, but the symphonies just didn't register with me at all until I first heard one played by a Soviet orchestra in the 1960s. It was precisely what you describe as "the sheer visceral excitement" that for the first time made me want to hear more of them.

[Petrushka]

The sheer visceral excitement of some of the Soviet recordings sits pretty successfuly for me alongside the now so bland 'European', refined playing of Tchaikovsky.

I didn't hear this mornings CDR so can't comment but most certainly agree with the above. The authentic sound of Russian brass in full cry in Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky is one of the glories of orchestral performance practise.

[StephenO]

The sheer visceral excitement of some of the Soviet recordings sits pretty successfuly for me alongside the now so bland 'European', refined playing of Tchaikovsky.

Time to re-evaluate?

Definitely. Oh for the days when you could tell one orchestra from another! Russian brass had the power to thrill which few modern players seem willing or able to match. Visceral sums it up perfectly. And as for the woodwinds...

I certainly wouldn't want to swap my Mravinsky recordings for any of the more modern, "discreet" performances.

[DracoM]

The Czech Phil has gone a long way down the same route of ironing out that brass sound and the warm woodwind sound. There seems to be an indentikit sound spectrum of what a modern symphony orchestra should sound like.

Some American orchestras are still highly distinctive, but the whole recordiong busines seems increasingly paranoid about putting anything on the market that excites the kind of slightly embarrassed bordering on patronising comments made in CDR this a.m. 'We do things differently now'. Implication being that it's better. Hmm.

Interestingly, in the Early Music field, distinctiveness seems to be a real and solid virtue.

[amateur51]

I've listened to some of the Rozhdestvensky set on Spotify and I just loved the 'Soviet' brass and woodwind - gutsy and piquant in my opinion. The opening movement of 'Manfred' is pulled about a bit but there is some gorgeous woodwind layering, as Mr Norris, would put it, and while it might not be a first choice, this set is certainly going on my list

Would this be HIPP Tchaikovsky by any chance?

[Nick Armstrong]

I've listened to some of the Rozhdestvensky set on Spotify and I just loved the 'Soviet' brass and woodwind - gutsy and piquant in my opinion. The opening movement of 'Manfred' is pulled about a bit but there is some gorgeous woodwind layering, as Mr Norris, would put it, and while it might not be a first choice, this set is certainly going on my list

Would this be HIPP Tchaikovsky by any chance?

YES! I've just listened to the Norris-McGregor spot about the Tchaikovsky releases. Certainly Norris referred to wobbly trumpets and horns being "the less desirable elements" that were missing in the recent Pletnev... But that manicured, modern, restrained approach to Tchaikovsky, for this pair of ears at least, only serves to make Tchaikovsky sound banal.

For that music to work, for me, it has to have the visceral desperation of the earlier era of Soviet recordings - gutsy and piquant, as you say Ammy, but also white-knuckled and on the brink of disaster. Then old Piotr Ilyich comes into his own, and makes sense for me.

[amateur51]

YES! I've just listened to the Norris-McGregor spot about the Tchaikovsky releases. Certainly Norris referred to wobbly trumpets and horns being "the less desirable elements" that were missing in the recent Pletnev... But that manicured, modern, restrained approach to Tchaikovsky, for this pair of ears at least, only serves to make Tchaikovsky sound banal.

For that music to work, for me, it has to have the visceral desperation of the earlier era of Soviet recordings - gutsy and piquant, as you say Ammy, but also white-knuckled and on the brink of disaster. Then old Piotr Ilyich comes into his own, and makes sense for me.

Deffo Caliban - and how fortunate he has been to have conductors of the calibre of Mravinsky, Svetlanov, Golovanov and Rozhdestvensky to drive his music so magnificently 'over the cliff' for our delight

[Nick Armstrong]

Deffo Caliban - and how fortunate he has been to have conductors of the calibre of Mravinsky, Svetlanov, Golovanov and Rozhdestvensky to drive his music so magnificently 'over the cliff' for our delight

[Chris Newman]

When it comes to horns I too am rather fond of that bray of what sounds like saxophones at the back of Soviet orchestras and that brazen roar of their trumpets.

[BBMmk2]

I'm not so sure about the "Soviet Era Brass". At nthat time in this country, vibrato was widely used in this country, up until circa 1980s(I think). When I hear that sound now, it certainly makes me cringe! I do prefer the contemporary sound of brass instruments.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm not so sure about the "Soviet Era Brass". At nthat time in this country, vibrato was widely used in this country, up until circa 1980s(I think). When I hear that sound now, it certainly makes me cringe! I do prefer the contemporary sound of brass instruments.

Course, there's never a hint of vibrato in a brass band, brassbandmaestro!!

A good fruity, wobbly Soviet French horn always reminds me of a brass band Euphonium.

And I love the sound of the old Dresden horn-players too. Peter Damm's performance of the R Strauss second concerto

[amateur51]

When it comes to horns I too am rather fond of that bray of what sounds like saxophones at the back of Soviet orchestras and that brazen roar of their trumpets.

Here you go Chris ... subtle it ain't ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWTHfyhy6c

"The orchestra going off the cliff at around 7.38 is The Leningrad Philharmonic, calling at ..."

Isn't Noddy wonderful? - cross between Eric Morecambe directing traffic and illustrations from 'Flyfishing ' by J R Hartley

And listen to chat audience roarrrrrr!

[Mr Pee]

Course, there's never a hint of vibrato in a brass band, brassbandmaestro!!

A good fruity, wobbly Soviet French horn always reminds me of a brass band Euphonium.

I remember the Philips Complete Mozart Edition set of Wind Concertos; amongst many fine performances, the Horn Concertos I found pretty much un-listenable to, precisely because the instrument sounded like a Euphonium. I can't recall the performer, but he was from Eastern Europe, and it was a truly dreadful sound. Nothing good or fruity about it! Thank goodness things have moved on.