Selling / Disposing of 78 RPM discs

[mathias broucek]

One of my neighbour's mums has gone into a care home.

It looks like she had a decent collection - HMV Red Label with Furtwangler, Boult (Complete Planets) and the like. What's the best way to find a good home? I'm sure she'd like some £££ if possible but that's not the key priority. I know NOTHING about the market for 78s! Does anyone have any idea?

We are in North London

As an aside, her LPs also show excellent taste but they're not rare or in great condition and so are not worth anything (and may be hard to dispose of).

[richardfinegold]

Can’t help you but what was she playing them with? Or have they been in a closet for 60 years?
I ‘m sure that there are collectors out there for them. I would start by asking someone who routinely deals with Estate Sales. Pick a large dealer, perhaps one that has a knickknack shop associated with their business where they sell the more desirable items that they obtain. The larger the dealer the more likely they are to know about niche items. The second place I would try are record stores that deal in 78s. There has to be at least one in London.
Personally I only would listen to historical records if they have been digitally restored, but the market isn’t listeners like me…

[smittims]

There certainly are 78 specialist collectors, as YouTube will confirm, but how to find them is another story. Forty years ago there was a shop near me which had a vast stock of complete albums, e.g.the 1935 Glyndebourne Cosi fan Tutte, several copies. I kept some of my father's collection, but having no 78 playing equipment, and having so many on Cds I'm ashamed to say I binned quite a few, such as the 1927 Beecham Faust , keeping one or two to decorate the walls of my CD store, including the 1927 Elgar 2nd symphony,the first record I bought, for tuppence at a jumble sale at my sister's school, and which I could not part with for sentimental reasons, as it sparked my love of Elgar's music.

I'd advise private sale rather than accepting a lump sum from a dealer. EBay is probably your best bet, but you may have to provide a list and be prepared for people to pick and choose. .

[Petrushka]

I picked up a few 78s from an antique shop over 50 years ago. I've still got Bruno Walter and the Vienna Philharmonic in Strauss' Kaiserwalzer and the Schubert 'Unfinished' plus Fritz Kreisler in the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto conducted by Sir Landon Ronald. The Walter have appeared on CD but not sure about the Kreisler. I can no longer play them, anyway.

My father once had some old cylinder records but think they got thrown out decades ago.

You could consult an antiques expert but, sadly, i think the only place for them is likely to be the bin.

[gradus]

We've still got a 78 collection inherited from an elderly friend nearly 50 years ago. Luckily it only takes up about 3 or 4 feet of shelf space but may include some rarities and some favourite performances since reissued on LP at least if not later media. Annoyingly i managed to crack my favourite performance of the Meistersinger Quintet conducted by Barbirolli with Schumann, Melchior, Schorr, Parr, Williams, but luckily its on Youtube,

[hmvman]

One of my neighbour's mums has gone into a care home.

It looks like she had a decent collection - HMV Red Label with Furtwangler, Boult (Complete Planets) and the like. What's the best way to find a good home? I'm sure she'd like some £££ if possible but that's not the key priority. I know NOTHING about the market for 78s! Does anyone have any idea?

We are in North London

As an aside, her LPs also show excellent taste but they're not rare or in great condition and so are not worth anything (and may be hard to dispose of).

Yes, disposing of '78s' is a problem. Dealers I know are downsizing their stock rather than acquiring. There are certain records that are valuable/sought after but the majority of standard issue HMV and Columbia etc are worth very little. I've been downsizing my collection too recently and regretfully getting rid of quite a lot of classical orchestral discs: symphonies taking multiple sides aren't much fun to play on a wind-up machine.

You could try contacting the City of London Phonograph & Gramophone Society (CLPGS) to see if there's anyone in the London area who might be interested:

https://www.clpgs.org.uk/contact-names.html Maybe best to try the London meetings organiser as he may know someone who attends those meetings: bookshop@clpgs.org.uk

Best of luck, I hate the thought of records in nice condition going into a skip!

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, disposing of '78s' is a problem. Dealers I know are downsizing their stock rather than acquiring. There are certain records that are valuable/sought after but the majority of standard issue HMV and Columbia etc are worth very little. I've been downsizing my collection too recently and regretfully getting rid of quite a lot of classical orchestral discs: symphonies taking multiple sides aren't much fun to play on a wind-up machine.

You could try contacting the City of London Phonograph & Gramophone Society (CLPGS) to see if there's anyone in the London area who might be interested:

https://www.clpgs.org.uk/contact-names.html Maybe best to try the London meetings organiser as he may know someone who attends those meetings: bookshop@clpgs.org.uk

Best of luck, I hate the thought of records in nice condition going into a skip!

Thank you, hmvman; the CLP&GS could be wroth contacting in my case. I have a large collection of 78s handed down to me from my late father. He acquired most of them in the 30s. Besides full-scale symphonies and other classical works the collection included numerous 10"s of dance music - Victor Sylvester, Vic Oliver - and patriotic pop tunes from WW2 including The Spitfire Song, with South of the Border Down Mexico Way on the B side. I've often wondered how to dispense with them - I bought a cheap record player just for playing them on. Before leaving Essex to return to living in London in 2004 I befriended a woman who had known Count Basie as a friend and had numerous LPs signed by band members she wanted to get rid of, but even then I was unable to negotiate what I considered a just price.

[smittims]

Yes, Petrushka,the Kreisler/Ronald Mendelssohn is on a Naxos CD, part of their long-running Kreisler series. I knew it from my father's 78s and it has always been the classic version for me, despite Menuhin's consitent advocacy over the years.

I always thought 78s were not heard at their best when played on a BSR-type LP deck with a '78' speed , which is how many people played them in the 1960s, etc. One really needs a specialist 78 turntable and arm. On the other hand , it is a fallacy to assert, as some have done,that they sound at their best when played on an EMG acoustic gramophone. Electrical amplification brings out more audio quality , present in the original recording, but not accessible to acoustic machines.

Many 78 machines had a built-in treble cut which reduced surface noise and gave the illusion of a 'warmer' sound. Many old AM radios did this too. I remember some old-fashioned customers feeeling that the brighter treble response of 'hi-fi' equipment was 'poor reproduction' . they associated it with the 'tinny' sound of cheap gramophones and radios.

[Dave2002]

Yes, Petrushka,the Kreisler/Ronald Mendelssohn is on a Naxos CD, part of their long-running Kreisler series. I knew it from my father's 78s and it has always been the classic version for me, despite Menuhin's consitent advocacy over the years.

I always thought 78s were not heard at their best when played on a BSR-type LP deck with a '78' speed , which is how many people played them in the 1960s, etc. One really needs a specialist 78 turntable and arm. On the other hand , it is a fallacy to assert, as some have done,that they sound at their best when played on an EMG acoustic gramophone. Electrical amplification brings out more audio quality , present in the original recording, but not accessible to acoustic machines.

Very possibly 78s are best heard when played with a stereo cartridge, and digitised - or at the very least some clever analogue circuitry applied.
It is possible to detect the hisses and clicks and use an almost imperceptible process to remove those to something close to silence.

The frequency range and dynamic range of some 78s may actually be rather good - though there are other problems such as wow and flutter, which also need to be avoided.

It may be that some transciption services are doing this, but often noise reduction is done rather badly.

To do this kind of work after the recording have been crudely digitised is unlikely to give the best results.

[pastoralguy]

A friend of mine has a state of the art gramophone from the 1920’s with the biggest horn I’ve ever seen. He played me some Kreisler played by Kreisler and I swear it felt as though you could put your arm down the horn and touch him!

[hmvman]

Thank you, hmvman; the CLP&GS could be wroth contacting in my case. I have a large collection of 78s handed down to me from my late father. He acquired most of them in the 30s. Besides full-scale symphonies and other classical works the collection included numerous 10"s of dance music - Victor Sylvester, Vic Oliver - and patriotic pop tunes from WW2 including The Spitfire Song, with South of the Border Down Mexico Way on the B side. I've often wondered how to dispense with them - I bought a cheap record player just for playing them on. Before leaving Essex to return to living in London in 2004 I befriended a woman who had known Count Basie as a friend and had numerous LPs signed by band members she wanted to get rid of, but even then I was unable to negotiate what I considered a just price.

Well, good luck, S_A, with seeking good homes for those records but I'm not promising that CLPGS will provide them. I'm a member of the society and I know several other members who are actively seeking to dispose of their collections, and I am downsizing mine.

I do some part-time work for a local hospice with several charity shops and a disappointing update came yesterday when I was in conversation to a chap who comes to value donated records. He said that 78s/shellac records are not in demand, unless they're early Rock & Roll, Elvis Presley or early Jazz. Classical is right out!

The skip is, perhaps, calling.....

[hmvman]

A friend of mine has a state of the art gramophone from the 1920’s with the biggest horn I’ve ever seen. He played me some Kreisler played by Kreisler and I swear it felt as though you could put your arm down the horn and touch him!

That sounds like it would an EMG gramophone, of which smittims spake upthread. I have heard these machines and felt the same way as you about the 'tangibility' of the sound.

[hmvman]

I always thought 78s were not heard at their best when played on a BSR-type LP deck with a '78' speed , which is how many people played them in the 1960s, etc. One really needs a specialist 78 turntable and arm. On the other hand , it is a fallacy to assert, as some have done,that they sound at their best when played on an EMG acoustic gramophone. Electrical amplification brings out more audio quality , present in the original recording, but not accessible to acoustic machines.

Many 78 machines had a built-in treble cut which reduced surface noise and gave the illusion of a 'warmer' sound. Many old AM radios did this too. I remember some old-fashioned customers feeeling that the brighter treble response of 'hi-fi' equipment was 'poor reproduction' . they associated it with the 'tinny' sound of cheap gramophones and radios.

Since around the late '50s/early '60s, the phono input stages of amplifiers have used a standardised RIAA equalisation curve which is fine for LPs all recorded with the same EQ. Earlier electrical 78s, though, were recorded with different EQ curves depending on the recording company. Better amplifiers, such as Leak or Quad had buttons which could be used in combination to match the EQ of various companies. Playing a 78 into a modern amplifier with RIAA EQ often results in too much bass, emphasising rumble. Some enthusiasts use a graphic equaliser to adjust the sound for the various recordings.

On acoustic gramophones the design and quality of the soundbox makes a huge difference to sound quality. When it comes to surface noise it's surprising what good filters the ears and brain are!

[richardfinegold]

With regard to the music contained on 78s there are two issues here. The first is how to best hear the actual recording. The second is the hobbyist joy of indulging in an old technology.
Regarding the first point, digital restorations of pre lp era recordings are simply amazing. The elimination of the roar of shellac, the unearthing of instrumental sonorities, and yes the longer playing time defy comparison to playing 78s. The space savings are pretty significant as well. I think that if I were to bring 78s into the home my long suffering wife, whose home is already under siege from thousands of polycarbonate discs, gear, and a few LPs, would be tempted to kick me to the curb.
However it might be cool, for perhaps half an hour, to put a weighty 78 shellac on a gramophone, wind the thing up, and pretend I’m Jay Gatsby trying to romance Daisy.
To each their own

[kernelbogey]

I'm recalling a BBC feature, probably on Music Matters, years ago, where it was revealed that shellac recordings were made in duplicate as a kind of fail-safe. The presenter had utilised the fact that the recording machines were on opposite sides of the studio to create a modern stereo sound.