Prince of the Pagodas (Hallé 2CD)

[Master Jacques]

I think I'd dispute that to some extent: the typical Italianate clang (exemplified so successfully in Death in Venice) is worlds away from 'refined' English change-ringing, for example.
There are only two bells in 'Sunday morning': the slow deliberate bass B flat, heard first, then the faster more insistent E flat (minor third above middle C), and I associate them simply with a small parish church's summons to service/prayer (which is not in any way to dismiss their effectiveness in the score).

I think we're embracing the toccata-like bell writing for orchestra (and the soprano) as much as the actual, physical sound of the two bells. They work, for sure, precisely as you describe, in the good old Anglican way.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think Britten's subversive side was called Peter Pears. Without the singer's encouragement, I wonder how many of the projects you (fairly) cite would have taken off?

As for masks, I find that they're there in Britten's music as much as his personality, to the extent that the idea of a "real Britten" somewhere under the masks is difficult to sustain. In truth, we are all of us a repository of masks, which is what makes Identity such an elusive, slippery and dangerous (even harmful) theory.

A very perceptive comment. Anecdotes I’ve heard about Pears emphasise his playful , unconventional side - not heard the same about BB. There’s a painting of Pears singing in his rehearsal piano room at the Red House. It really captures something of PP in performance. It’s not flattering but it has a truth . Typically BB disliked it , PP loved it.
Yes we all have masks and conceal parts of ourselves (and thank God for that). Even the American habit pouring your heart out about your “ true “ self is just another tactical concealment. Were you to suggest that their perception of themselves might not tally with others they’d be flummoxed.

[Pulcinella]

Masks and bells in the Church parables (at least Curlew River), I think.

[oliver sudden]

Although he didn't visit Bali until 1956, when preparing for The Prince of the Pagodas, his friendship with Colin McPhee dated back to 1939, so he certainly knew something about Balian music at the time he was writing his second opera. What Sunday morning shows, perhaps, is that bell-ringing is much the same the world over. Those wonderful Britten bells are certainly quite as much Blythburgh as Bali.

David Matthews’s article on Act II Scene 1 in the Cambridge Opera Handbook on Peter Grimes points out that Britten recorded a McPhee transcription for two pianos of Balinese music with McPhee while he was in the US, and back in England performed it with Curzon at the time he was writing Grimes. The harmonic resemblance is striking. (Whether there is any programmatic meaning intended, I don’t know.)

[Master Jacques]

David Matthews’s article on Act II Scene 1 in the Cambridge Opera Handbook on Peter Grimes points out that Britten recorded a McPhee transcription for two pianos of Balinese music with McPhee while he was in the US, and back in England performed it with Curzon at the time he was writing Grimes. The harmonic resemblance is striking. (Whether there is any programmatic meaning intended, I don’t know.)

The orchestral tintinnabulations in the opera sound very English too, and of course Britten's sonic memory was every bit as soaked in English church bells (c.f. also Turn of the Screw for something similar) as it might have been in the parenthetic Balinese evocations he utilises so memorably in The Prince of the Pagodas and Death in Venice. David Matthews's speculation is an interesting one, but it is just that: speculation.

It would certainly be unwise (as you hint) to read any sophisticated dramatic/theatrical "meaning" into any such correspondences, given the English setting and cultural mores of the scene in Peter Grimes. It's a different matter in the ballet, and the late opera, of course, where "otherworldliness" in contrast to Western tropes (e.g. the King of the West's Schoenberg parody in Prince of the Pagodas) is the whole point of the Balinese-style music.

[oliver sudden]

This is definitely worth hearing in any case…

https://youtu.be/Kxr7XjqMg90?feature=shared

[silvestrione]

This is definitely worth hearing in any case…

https://youtu.be/Kxr7XjqMg90?feature=shared

Thanks for that. Certainly, at about 7.40 there's something not dissimilar in character from 'Sunday Morning'.

I love the Balinese elements in Tippett's Triple Concerto.

[bluestateprommer]

Haven't heard but gets a very good review in this month's Gramophone.

David Hurwitz praises this new recording of TPotP at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDO9pGX0b8E

[Barbirollians]

David Hurwitz praises this new recording of TPotP at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDO9pGX0b8E

Kiss of death !

[oliver sudden]

Kiss of death !

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

not so sure about that if time is a continuous flow then a “stopped “ clock can never be right as time will always be passing through it. However for the time it takes a working clock second hand to move through the stopped hand it can be said to be “right “ to all intents and purposes.

[vinteuil]

if time is a continuous flow

... what grounds do you have for assuming time is a continuous flow?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono...it%20of%20time.



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[Cockney Sparrow]

Visual representation of a clock. Usually manages to be in the correct minute, but I wouldn't set seconds on my watch to it........

https://olegon.ru/clock/

(I have dropped in on this site now and then, over a few years now....)

It uses "Standard Time" - there are various web pages about it, including:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/standard-time-a-clock-rebuilt-every-minute/id367424118

[Ein Heldenleben]

... what grounds do you have for assuming time is a continuous flow?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronon#:~:text=A%20chronon%20is%20a%20proposed,no n%2Ddecomposable%20unit%20of%20time.



.

That is a very interesting question

[Barbirollians]

I liked the Halle’s account of the Prince of Pagodas suite thst Colin Matthews has arranged in their Radio 3 in concert a few weeks back still on sounds . Was not so sure about the Mahler 1 - a bit of a curate’s egg, started well but the funeral March was undercharacterised for my liking - the finale began clunkily but ended really well . The conductor seemed much happier in the tender quieter passages to my ears.