Indispensable recordings 10.08.2024. Proms Composer 4: Beethoven

[oliver sudden]

I am now far more likely to seek out recordings from the last couple of decades, ranging from HIP-influenced to full-blown HIPP.

That also largely applies for my actual listening so here are five of my personal indispensables in that direction:

Symphonies: Krivine
(if I have to pick one: 7)
Piano sonatas: Badura-Skoda (Astrée)
(if I have to pick one: op. 109)
Piano concertos: Schoonderwoerd
(if I have to pick one: 5)
Missa Solemnis: Gardiner on DG
Violin concerto: Zehetmair, EM/Bour
(because no period instrument players as far as I know have taken on these tempi, which completely blow the cobwebs off the piece).

I said ‘largely’ because Furtwängler and the Busch Quartet just keep sneaking their way back into the CD player…

Any other HIPsters want to propose a subjectively indispensable HIP handful?

[MickyD]

Ok, I'll have a go...

Symphony 8 by Hogwood....huge HIP forces, not to be listened to if you are feeling fragile!

Sonatas and Bagatelles played by Jos Van Immerseel on a wonderful ghostly-sounding Graf (Accent)

Complete Violin Sonatas by Jaap Schroder and Jos Van Immerseel, beautifully recorded on DHM.

Septet...two good recordings by the AAM Chamber Ensemble, the other by Hausmusik.

Diabelli Variations by Andreas Staier.

[oliver sudden]

Ok, I'll have a go...

Symphony 8 by Hogwood....huge HIP forces, not to be listened to if you are feeling fragile!

Sonatas and Bagatelles played by Jos Van Immerseel on a wonderful ghostly-sounding Graf (Accent)

Complete Violin Sonatas by Jaap Schroder and Jos Van Immerseel, beautifully recorded on DHM.

Septet...two good recordings by the AAM Chamber Ensemble, the other by Hausmusik.

Diabelli Variations by Andreas Staier.

Oh I haven’t heard the Hogwood symphonies for so long… I loved them when they came out, especially the last three with the festival-sized double orchestra.

Also that Septet, with a lovely Weber Quintet as its discmate.

A pity with the Staier Diabellis that he kept it on one disc rather than including more of the other contributions! (Demus did a similar project long before—which I think was reissued on Eloquence not so long after. Coincidence? Probably.) Indeed why is there not more Staier Beethoven?

I saw him do the fourth concerto with the Freiburgers, with a new piece by Brice Pauset written to precede it… as is the way of these things, of course that de-fanged Beethoven’s own beginning. Staier and Pauset played the Liberty Bell March four-handed as an encore, announcing it as ‘now for something completely different’, using all the fortepiano’s bells and whistles. (They came and sat in the audience for the second half and since I had a comp I ended up with Staier, Pauset, and Konrad Junghänel on my immediate left.)

[silvestrione]

Apologies for not responding more considerately, which later posts have done, and for possibly even seeming dismissive.
I've now realised that you highlighted some words in my post; they were indeed not ideal.

Thanks for adding that. No problem though, your answer was well reasoned, if not persuasive here! But I look to be out of kilter with thinking on here, so I won't pursue the matter.

[MickyD]

Oh I haven’t heard the Hogwood symphonies for so long… I loved them when they came out, especially the last three with the festival-sized double orchestra.

Also that Septet, with a lovely Weber Quintet as its discmate.

A pity with the Staier Diabellis that he kept it on one disc rather than including more of the other contributions! (Demus did a similar project long before—which I think was reissued on Eloquence not so long after. Coincidence? Probably.) Indeed why is there not more Staier Beethoven?

I saw him do the fourth concerto with the Freiburgers, with a new piece by Brice Pauset written to precede it… as is the way of these things, of course that de-fanged Beethoven’s own beginning. Staier and Pauset played the Liberty Bell March four-handed as an encore, announcing it as ‘now for something completely different’, using all the fortepiano’s bells and whistles. (They came and sat in the audience for the second half and since I had a comp I ended up with Staier, Pauset, and Konrad Junghänel on my immediate left.)

The Hogwood cycle has, to my mind, always been rather overlooked. I like his Pastoral, too.

Yes, I got the Demus discs as well, fascinating to hear all those other composers' takes on the theme.

As for Staier, he has recorded some violin sonatas and trois for Harmonia Mundi, worth seeking out.

[Sir Velo]

Any other HIPsters want to propose a subjectively indispensable HIP handful?

Ahem. I refer the hon member to my post #8 upthread!

[oliver sudden]

Ahem. I refer the hon member to my post #8 upthread!

I see you didn’t want to pick single pieces either

[Retune]

Absolutely not! I think the whole notion of 'a performing tradition’ for music which was composed 200+ years ago is pretty meaningless: tastes change, styles change. I started listening to, and buying records of, Beethoven in the 60s and 70s, but derive very little pleasure in revisiting recordings from that era: my tastes have changed, and I am now far more likely to seek out recordings from the last couple of decades, ranging from HIP-influenced to full-blown HIPP.

Sometimes the era of the composer is closer than we think - e.g. Schnabel was taught by Leschetizky, who was taught by Czerny, who was taught by Beethoven. With only two men separating the composer from the artist who first recorded all his sonatas, it would almost be surprising if nothing meaningful had been transmitted. Can we get more historically informed than that? Which isn't to say, of course, that we can't listen to someone like Brautigam and experience another aspect of 'authenticity'.

[gurnemanz]

Sometimes the era of the composer is closer than we think

Eugenie Schumann, daughter of Robert and Clara, was born in 1851 and died in 1938, well into the Third Reich. She had got to know Brahms and had piano lessons with him. She moved to England after her mother's death in 1897 to live with her partner of 55 years, the singer, Marie Fillunger. She stayed for 27 years working as a piano teacher in London and was a supporter of the suffragette movement. No friend of the Nazis, in 1937 she refused an invitation from Joseph Goebbels to attend the premiere performance of her father's violin concerto in Berlin.

[silvestrione]

Absolutely not! I think the whole notion of 'a performing tradition’ for music which was composed 200+ years ago is pretty meaningless: tastes change, styles change. I started listening to, and buying records of, Beethoven in the 60s and 70s, but derive very little pleasure in revisiting recordings from that era: my tastes have changed, and I am now far more likely to seek out recordings from the last couple of decades, ranging from HIP-influenced to full-blown HIPP.

I am glad others have taken this up (so knowledgably too), so I don't feel so much out on a limb. Certainly, when Richard Barrett started referring on here to HUP performances, historically uninformed, as against HIP, I felt like saying that the terms were interchangeable. Retune's post brings that out pretty well. I suspect there are many aspects of the performing tradition from two hundred years ago hiding in plain sight.

But a bit off thread, sorry. Furtwangler and Schnabel have to figure in any account of indispensable Beethoven recordings, IMHO, and I imagine a good case can be made for Norrington and Gardiner too.