Reiner/RPO Brahms 4th

[richardfinegold]

Just played an lp that a neighbor gave me, Brahms 4th with the RPO, recorded in 1962. I had heard about this recording but never actually heard. I love it. It is unexpectedly warm without being hard driven, as some of Reiner's CSO work can be. I believe that these
were salad days for the Orchestra as well and the producing engineer was Keith Wilkinson. The first movement is wonderfully quick, a la Furtwangler but in much better sound.
I see that the CD of the same performance is going for about $20 used here on Chesky, a label which recirculated the Readers Digest recordings of that era in wonderful sound

[gradus]

The RPO in 1962 just post-Beecham and with much the same band of great players. I'd love to hear it although I think no one ever bettered Furtwangler in the Brahms symphonies though I heard a performance by Szell and the Clevelanders recently that was spellbinding.

[Tony Halstead]

The RPO in 1962 just post-Beecham and with much the same band of great players. I'd love to hear it although I think no one ever bettered Furtwangler in the Brahms symphonies though I heard a performance by Szell and the Clevelanders recently that was spellbinding.

IMV the Szell/ Cleveland recording of the Brahms 2nd symphony in about 1967 must be one of the greatest ever committed to disc. I heard them performing it live in the Usher Hall during the 1967 Edinburgh Festival and it was totally unforgettable, not least on account of the superlative playing of the Principal horn, Myron Bloom, with whom I was lucky enough to study in the 1970s-early 1980s when he was in The Paris Orchestra.

[jayne lee wilson]

The Chesky of the Reiner 4th (vintage Walmthamstow/Wilkinson) with its proprietary 20x128 oversampling, still sounds excellent in a world awash with 24-bit downloads, blu-ray and SACD. Like some Japanese Specials, shows what CD can really do. Just tried the first few minutes - light, swift and transparent, yet relaxed - saving the power for later in the movement. The finale's opening is weighty and stern, yet remarkably transparent to every layer of wind, strings and brass. No Romantic rhetoric here, no excess fat-on-the-tone. Terrific CD, c/w with a fine Egmont Overture (Leibowitz).

It suits my ears now - I prefer Brahms this way, cf. Mackerras, Berglund, Manze... Might not appeal to Brahmsians of heftier, richer tastes...
French-White Brahms, rather than SA-Shiraz...

[umslopogaas]

I dont know this [Reiner] version, though I certainly have many others. I view Brahms' music as clear mountain water that became muddied with symphonies and other orchestral stuff, but in the late piano items and other chamber stuff, somehow became clear again. Perhaps a genius who is for ever praised for the wrong reasons, ie, he is praised and famous for his orchestral output, but really, we should be praising him for his chamber and instrumental music.

[gradus]

Tony, there have been superlative horn sections in all the great orchestras to whom I owe an enormous number of spine-tingling moments eg VPO Ring recordings, LSO - almost any time, RPO in Beecham's final Heldenleben simply sensational, but as a player do you have some favourite recorded examples of the horn sections art?

[richardfinegold]

The Chesky of the Reiner 4th (vintage Walmthamstow/Wilkinson) with its proprietary 20x128 oversampling, still sounds excellent in a world awash with 24-bit downloads, blu-ray and SACD. Like some Japanese Specials, shows what CD can really do. Just tried the first few minutes - light, swift and transparent, yet relaxed - saving the power for later in the movement. The finale's opening is weighty and stern, yet remarkably transparent to every layer of wind, strings and brass. No Romantic rhetoric here, no excess fat-on-the-tone. Terrific CD, c/w with a fine Egmont Overture (Leibowitz).

It suits my ears now - I prefer Brahms this way, cf. Mackerras, Berglund, Manze... Might not appeal to Brahmsians of heftier, richer tastes...
French-White Brahms, rather than SA-Shiraz...

An excellent description, jlw. The Reiner sounds very modern,similar to Manze or Berglund.
I have some Chesky remixes of Horenstein recordings from the Reader digest Series, such as the New World, and the Rachmaninov Concertos with Wild. All stunning

[richardfinegold]

IMV the Szell/ Cleveland recording of the Brahms 2nd symphony in about 1967 must be one of the greatest ever committed to disc. I heard them performing it live in the Usher Hall during the 1967 Edinburgh Festival and it was totally unforgettable, not least on account of the superlative playing of the Principal horn, Myron Bloom, with whom I was lucky enough to study in the 1970s-early 1980s when he was in The Paris Orchestra.

The Szell/Cleveland Brahms 1 was remastered and sounds great. Regrettably the rest of that cycle suffers from early digitalitis, indifferent transfers to CD. Pity they didn't remaster the rest. The remastering of a Richard Strauss disc, featuring Don Quixote and Bloom in one of the Horn Concertos, is likewise a treat.

[cloughie]

An excellent description, jlw. The Reiner sounds very modern,similar to Manze or Berglund.
I have some Chesky remixes of Horenstein recordings from the Reader digest Series, such as the New World, and the Rachmaninov Concertos with Wild. All stunning

The RPO Kempe of similar vintage is also stunning.

[Barbirollians]

Not forgetting of course the magnificent RPO/Barbirolli Sibelius 2 from the same year also once on Chesky.

[cloughie]

Not forgetting of course the magnificent RPO/Barbirolli Sibelius 2 from the same year also once on Chesky.

Never thought of these recordings before in relation to the Beecham orchestra!

[Gordon]

This Reiner recording was the only one he made for Decca/RCA [for Reader's Digest] in the UK, the very few others were all made in Vienna [eg Verdi Requiem]. The RPO sessions between September 28th and October 9th produced Reiner's Brahms 4 but also some other interesting recordings with Horenstein, Krips, Barbirolli [the Sibelius 2 mentioned above] and Leibovitz as illustrated by this extract from the Decca discography: one might expect all these recordings to be of the same quality as the Reiner. One wonders what was preventing use of Kingsway at this time - it was EMI getting first dibs recording Giulini conducting Britten.

Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
28-29 Sep 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Josef Krips
[a] HAYDN Symphony No.104 in D “London”
[B] MOZART Symphony No.35 in D K385 “Haffner”
[READER’S DIGEST] [ab] (’63) RDM1026 = RDS5026;
[a] (c63) RD4011, (’96) RDCD1431-33, [b] (c64) RD4015, (c91) RDCD291-93,
[ab] (Nov79) Quintessence PMC7105,
[ab] (Jly88) Menuet 160022.2,
[ab] (Jan91) Chesky CD16.

>1211
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
[a] 29 & [abc] 30 Sep 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
[b] Beecham Choral Society;
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Jascha Horenstein
[a] WAGNER Siegfried Idyll
[B] Tannhäuser : Venusberg bacchanale
[c] Der Fliegende Holländer : Overture
[READER’S DIGEST] [abc] (’63) RDM1023 = RDS5023;
(c64) RD4015,
(Dec77) Quintessence PMC7047,
[b] (Apr89) Chesky CD19,
[ac] (Feb91) Chesky CD31,
[c] (’91) RDCD281-86,
[ab] (’95) RDCD1151-53.

>1212
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
1&9 Oct 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, John Barbirolli
SIBELIUS Symphony No.2 in D Op.43
[READER’S DIGEST] (’63) RDM1028 = RDS5028; (c64) RD4015,
(Oct76) R.C.A. GL25011,
(May77) Quintessence PMC7008,
(Jly88) Menuet 160023.2,
(Jan91) Chesky CD3.

>1213
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
2,3&5 Oct 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Fritz Reiner
BRAHMS Symphony No.4 in E minor Op.98
[READER’S DIGEST] (’63) RDM1021 = RDS5021; (c64) RD4015,
(May77) R.C.A. GL11961,
(c81) Quintessence PMC7182,
(Jly88) Menuet 160025.2,
(Jan91) Chesky CD6,
(’94) RDCD741-43.

>1214
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
[a] 2, [b] 3 & [bc] 6 Oct 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
[a] Hyman Bress (violin); [b] Earl Wild (piano);
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, René Leibowitz
[a] MENDELSSOHN Violin Concerto in E minor Op.64
[b] GRIEG Piano Concerto in A minor Op.16
[c] BEETHOVEN Egmont Op.84 : Overture
[READER’S DIGEST] [ab] (’63) RDM1024 = RDS5024;
(c64) RD3015 = RD4015,
[b] (c77) Quintessence PMC7031,
[c] (’81) RDS9901-10,
[c] (Jly88) Menuet 160021.2,
[b] (’88) RDCD71-77,
[c] (c90) RDCD171-77,
[a] (’94) RDCD671-73,
[c] (Jan91) Chesky CD6,
[b] (Mar92) Chesky CD50.

>1215
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
3&8 Oct 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
Earl Wild (piano), Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Anatole Fistoulari
TCHAIKOVSKY Piano Concerto No.1 in B flat minor Op.23
[READER’S DIGEST] (’63) RDM1031 = RDS5031; (c64) RD4015,
(Oct76) R.C.A. GL25013,
(May77) Quintessence PMC7003,
(Jly88) Menuet 160024.2,
(Jan91) Chesky CD13,
(’91) RDCD261-63.

[Gordon]

The Chesky of the Reiner 4th (vintage Walthamstow/Wilkinson) with its proprietary 20x128 oversampling....

Do tell us more! "proprietary" sounds intriguing, the originals will have been analogue stereo.

[richardfinegold]

This Reiner recording was the only one he made for Decca/RCA [for Reader's Digest] in the UK, the very few others were all made in Vienna [eg Verdi Requiem]. The RPO sessions between September 28th and October 9th produced Reiner's Brahms 4 but also some other interesting recordings with Horenstein, Krips, Barbirolli [the Sibelius 2 mentioned above] and Leibovitz as illustrated by this extract from the Decca discography: one might expect all these recordings to be of the same quality as the Reiner. One wonders what was preventing use of Kingsway at this time - it was EMI getting first dibs recording Giulini conducting Britten.

Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
28-29 Sep 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Josef Krips
[a] HAYDN Symphony No.104 in D “London”
[B] MOZART Symphony No.35 in D K385 “Haffner”
[READER’S DIGEST] [ab] (’63) RDM1026 = RDS5026;
[a] (c63) RD4011, (’96) RDCD1431-33, [b] (c64) RD4015, (c91) RDCD291-93,
[ab] (Nov79) Quintessence PMC7105,
[ab] (Jly88) Menuet 160022.2,
[ab] (Jan91) Chesky CD16.

>1211
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
[a] 29 & [abc] 30 Sep 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
[b] Beecham Choral Society;
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Jascha Horenstein
[a] WAGNER Siegfried Idyll
[B] Tannhäuser : Venusberg bacchanale
[c] Der Fliegende Holländer : Overture
[READER’S DIGEST] [abc] (’63) RDM1023 = RDS5023;
(c64) RD4015,
(Dec77) Quintessence PMC7047,
[b] (Apr89) Chesky CD19,
[ac] (Feb91) Chesky CD31,
[c] (’91) RDCD281-86,
[ab] (’95) RDCD1151-53.

>1212
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
1&9 Oct 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, John Barbirolli
SIBELIUS Symphony No.2 in D Op.43
[READER’S DIGEST] (’63) RDM1028 = RDS5028; (c64) RD4015,
(Oct76) R.C.A. GL25011,
(May77) Quintessence PMC7008,
(Jly88) Menuet 160023.2,
(Jan91) Chesky CD3.

>1213
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
2,3&5 Oct 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Fritz Reiner
BRAHMS Symphony No.4 in E minor Op.98
[READER’S DIGEST] (’63) RDM1021 = RDS5021; (c64) RD4015,
(May77) R.C.A. GL11961,
(c81) Quintessence PMC7182,
(Jly88) Menuet 160025.2,
(Jan91) Chesky CD6,
(’94) RDCD741-43.

>1214
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
[a] 2, [b] 3 & [bc] 6 Oct 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
[a] Hyman Bress (violin); [b] Earl Wild (piano);
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, René Leibowitz
[a] MENDELSSOHN Violin Concerto in E minor Op.64
[b] GRIEG Piano Concerto in A minor Op.16
[c] BEETHOVEN Egmont Op.84 : Overture
[READER’S DIGEST] [ab] (’63) RDM1024 = RDS5024;
(c64) RD3015 = RD4015,
[b] (c77) Quintessence PMC7031,
[c] (’81) RDS9901-10,
[c] (Jly88) Menuet 160021.2,
[b] (’88) RDCD71-77,
[c] (c90) RDCD171-77,
[a] (’94) RDCD671-73,
[c] (Jan91) Chesky CD6,
[b] (Mar92) Chesky CD50.

>1215
Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson
3&8 Oct 1962 Walthamstow Assembly Hall
Earl Wild (piano), Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Anatole Fistoulari
TCHAIKOVSKY Piano Concerto No.1 in B flat minor Op.23
[READER’S DIGEST] (’63) RDM1031 = RDS5031; (c64) RD4015,
(Oct76) R.C.A. GL25013,
(May77) Quintessence PMC7003,
(Jly88) Menuet 160024.2,
(Jan91) Chesky CD13,
(’91) RDCD261-63.

Thank you for that. What about the other Readers Digest recordings, such as the Horenstein/Wild Rach PCs, the Horenstein New World and Brahms First...were they recorded at differrent times and venues?

[seabright]

As Barbirollians rightly says, the RPO / Barbirolli Sibelius 2 was indeed magnificent. Many of those Reader's Digest LPs featured some of the greatest performances ever recorded. Charles Gerhardt engaged top-flight conductors and soloists who, working with a first-rate engineering team, produced lots of memorable recordings. The pity of it was that because these LPs were available only to subscribers of Reader's Digest and not available in the shops, they were never reviewed in the Gramophone nor played on the radio, so are still little-known even today.

I don't know if we can expand this thread into a wider discussion about Reader's Digest recordings but Gordon very helpfully lists some RPO recordings to which can be added a few more. For example, Earl Wild and Jascha Horenstein's RPO set of the four Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos and 'Paganini Rhapsody' is right up there with the best of them. Similarly, Rene Leibowitz's RPO set of all the Beethoven Symphonies is another very great integral recording.

More Earl Wild / RPO recordings featured Sargent as conductor in the First Piano Concertos of Chopin and Liszt. There were some splendid Tchaikovsky recordings too, with Sir Adrian Boult letting his hair down in a rip-roaring account of a Suite from "Swan Lake" (the orchestra for that was 'The New Symphony Orchestra of London') and Horenstein in a splendid Tchaikovsky 5th with the New Philharmonia.

Other conductors engaged by Gerhardt, besides Reiner in Brahms 4, included Rudolf Kempe, Charles Munch, Alfred Wallenstein, Charles Mackerras, Alexander Gibson, Christoph von Dohnanyi, Sir Arthur Bliss, Edward Downes, and many others, all recorded in excellent sound. Gerhardt himself conducted quite a few LPs too, notably the film scores of Bernard Herrmann, Max Steiner, Miklos Rozsa, Dimitri Tiomkin and so on. In short, he left quite a legacy and although a number of Reader's Digest recordings have come out Chesky, many others haven't. They fully deserve a CD revival!