Comparative Review: Bartok Concerto For Orchestra

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  • richardfinegold
    Full Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 7671

    Comparative Review: Bartok Concerto For Orchestra

    I had bought several volumes of Supraphon's 'Karel Ancerl Gold' series, 24 bit remasterings of recordings that Ancerl andthe Czech PO made
    extending from the mid 1950s to edge of the Prague Spring, after which Ancerl defected to Canada. At random I pulled Bartok's Concerto For Orchestra off the shelf. This recording is so different from every other version of the work that I have heard that I thought deserved a mention.
    First, the remastering is wonderful. There is great clarity of all the instruments and a deep soundstage. Not all the CDs in this series sound this good, but it is one of the standouts. And the Czech PO of this era hada great sound, with fruity winds, powerful yet characterful brass, and a thinner sounding strings than Vienna or Berlin (or Chicago--more later), but the string playing has great character.
    The remarkable (at least for me) thing about this interpretation is that Ancerl emphasizes the dark, foreboding elements and doesn't treat it as romp for Orchestra. For example the fugal horn passage in I doesn't sound jazzy or like a Gabrielli Canzonetta, but is taken slowly and ominously, evoking the beginning of Mahler 6.Even in the whirlwind last movement, it is the darker counter themes that take precedence over the more brilliant intro and coda. The high spirited parts get their due, but it always seems as if an undercurrent of foreboding lurks not far off.
    For comparison, I have been listening to the other 3 versions that I own, all of which have great similarity to each other and which stand in high contrast to the Ancerl. Those versions are Reiner and Solti, both with the CSO, and Dorati with the LSO. While there are differences between them--Dorati is the most balletic, Reiner and Solti both floor the gas at the most virtuoistic passages, with Solti being predictably more brass heavy and Reiner showing greater Orchestral discipline--fundamentally all 3 sound as if cut from the same cloth.
    One can't help noting that all 3 of those Conductors are Hungarians that had some contact with the Composer (Reiner was instrumental in obtaining the commission). Ancerl, on the other hand, was a Czech who as a teenager was sent to Theresenstadt and Auschwitz. Does this historical fact mean that he developed a darker view of life that permeated his music making? Ancerl's New World, another disc in this series, is the darkest that I've ever heard, but his Dvorak 6 is very sunny and bucolic, and one can't complain about his Prokofiev not being extroverted.
    Anyway, for me a new take on the Bartok, and after thinking for the last 40 years that there is only 1 way to do this piece, I think I am going to be relistening to this disc quite a bit.
  • jayne lee wilson
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 10711

    #2
    I admire several others in the Ancerl Supraphon Gold series, I see 9 on the shelf - among them, Janacek's Taras Bulba and the Glagolitic Mass, Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms & Oedipus, Dvorak 6, Brahms 2 - most especially his Martinu 5 & 6 & Frescoes Del Piero Della Francesca... I recognise those qualities you so vividly evoke.

    Haven't played it for a bit now, but I loved the Erich Leinsdorf/Boston SO Bartok Concerto for Orchestra (RCA-HP) for its warmth and more lyrical qualities beyond the look-what-we-can-do of - yes, Reiner, Solti in London, et al...

    I would go & order the Ancerl now - but, have I used this piece up for this lifetime, I wonder...?

    Comment

    • richardfinegold
      Full Member
      • Sep 2012
      • 7671

      #3
      Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
      I admire several others in the Ancerl Supraphon Gold series, I see 9 on the shelf - among them, Janacek's Taras Bulba and the Glagolitic Mass, Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms & Oedipus, Dvorak 6, Brahms 2 - most especially his Martinu 5 & 6 & Frescoes Del Piero Della Francesca... I recognise those qualities you so vividly evoke.

      Haven't played it for a bit now, but I loved the Erich Leinsdorf/Boston SO Bartok Concerto for Orchestra (RCA-HP) for its warmth and more lyrical qualities beyond the look-what-we-can-do of - yes, Reiner, Solti in London, et al...

      I would go & order the Ancerl now - but, have I used this piece up for this lifetime, I wonder...?
      I have several of those discs that you mention as well. The Frescoes is a particular favorite, I've loved that piece ever since I heard Kubelik perform it here in the 70s. Ancerl's Mahler 1 and 9 are particularly fine, as is the Shosty 5th.
      You sent me down memory lane with the Leinsdorf Concerto For Orchestra. My high school library had that lp....loudly proclaiming the Boston Symphony as "the Aristrocrat of Orchestras"....and that scratchy lp was my intro to the piece, and I haven't heard it since.
      I thought I was 'done' with the piece as well but the Ancerl has renewed my interest because of his very different approach.

      Comment

      • Bryn
        Banned
        • Mar 2007
        • 24688

        #4
        Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
        I admire several others in the Ancerl Supraphon Gold series, I see 9 on the shelf - among them, Janacek's Taras Bulba and the Glagolitic Mass, Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms & Oedipus, Dvorak 6, Brahms 2 - most especially his Martinu 5 & 6 & Frescoes Del Piero Della Francesca... I recognise those qualities you so vividly evoke.

        Haven't played it for a bit now, but I loved the Erich Leinsdorf/Boston SO Bartok Concerto for Orchestra (RCA-HP) for its warmth and more lyrical qualities beyond the look-what-we-can-do of - yes, Reiner, Solti in London, et al...

        I would go & order the Ancerl now - but, have I used this piece up for this lifetime, I wonder...?
        The Ancerl Oedipus Rex notoriously had the final stroke excised in its original vinyl manifestation. Whether by genuine restoration or editor's trickery, it's there in the Ancerl Gold CD version.

        Comment

        • Dave2002
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 18025

          #5
          Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
          I admire several others in the Ancerl Supraphon Gold series, I see 9 on the shelf - among them, Janacek's Taras Bulba and the Glagolitic Mass, Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms & Oedipus, Dvorak 6, Brahms 2 - most especially his Martinu 5 & 6 & Frescoes Del Piero Della Francesca... I recognise those qualities you so vividly evoke.
          I don't know the Frescoes work. I always valued this Brahms performance and recording highly - Johannes Brahms, Josef Suk, André Navarra, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra*, Karel Ančerl ‎– Tragic Overture / Concerto For Violin And 'Cello. Also the Bartók 2nd violin concerto with Gertler, the 3rd Piano concerto and the viola concerto. I'm not sure that the couplings were the same on the LPs. I do/did have the Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms, but was it really Oedipus on the other side? I had the CBS Stravinsky version and I really can't recall what was on the other other side of the Supraphon LP.

          I also really liked Josef Suk's recording of Bach violin sonatas, even though critics thought the harpsichord (played by Zuzana Ruzicková) was too much as I recall. There were also some Dvořák symphonic poems, and Suk again in the violin concerto also with the Romance - lovely record - all really good. I think we had a few more Supraphon LPs - some because they were highly reviewed (Taras Bulba, Glagolitic Mass etc.) and some because they turned up cheap from time to time, such as a recording of Bartók string quartets.

          Incidentally I just discovered this
          Dvořák or Dvorak is a common Czech surname, originally referring to a rich landowner with a manor house (Czech dvůr, cognate with Polish dwór). It is the fourth most common surname in the Czech lands.
          Does this indicate that the name Antonin Dvořák is a Czech equivalent of William Brown? What are the most common Czech surnames? The reference to Polish reminds me of the opera The Haunted Manor by Stanisław Moniuszko - Polish: Straszny dwór.

          Comment

          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            #6
            Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
            I do/did have the Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms, but was it really Oedipus on the other side? I had the CBS Stravinsky version and I really can't recall what was on the other other side of the Supraphon LP.
            At 53mins (even without the final notes), Oedipus Rex didn't have a coupling in its LP incarnations:



            (I didn't know that the recording had also been licensed to Turnabout at one time.)
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

            Comment

            • silvestrione
              Full Member
              • Jan 2011
              • 1708

              #7
              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
              The Ancerl Oedipus Rex notoriously had the final stroke excised in its original vinyl manifestation. Whether by genuine restoration or editor's trickery, it's there in the Ancerl Gold CD version.
              What! I've had that most of my life and still get it out occasionally, and never noticed! But what a recording, the chorus have such presence.

              Comment

              • richardfinegold
                Full Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 7671

                #8
                Listened to the Ancerl Dvorak 6th today. Wonderful version, easily my favorite. The recording isn't quite as spectacular sounding as the Concerto For Orchestra, but serviceable, the tempos are justly chosen, and the playing is wonderfully idiomatic.

                Comment

                • gurnemanz
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 7391

                  #9
                  I will always have a special affection for Solti/LSO which was one of my first and much played classical LP purchases in the late 60s.



                  Current CD favourite is Ivan Fischer/Budapest Festival Orch.

                  Comment

                  • richardfinegold
                    Full Member
                    • Sep 2012
                    • 7671

                    #10
                    Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
                    I will always have a special affection for Solti/LSO which was one of my first and much played classical LP purchases in the late 60s.



                    Current CD favourite is Ivan Fischer/Budapest Festival Orch.
                    I have never heard the Solti/LSO, which I think is better known than the Solti/CSO of a few years later which I do have. Reviews that I have read suggest that there isn't a significant difference between them.

                    Comment

                    • umslopogaas
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 1977

                      #11
                      Gurnemanz, that Solti LSO LP was also my first exposure to this music, I well remember scraping together the money to buy it, a full price Decca LP was a lot of money for a teenager back then. I still have a copy, though not, I think, that one: my parents Dansette gramophone would have put paid to that. If you like Solti's style (and I do), its a great performance.

                      Comment

                      • LeMartinPecheur
                        Full Member
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 4717

                        #12
                        Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
                        I have never heard the Solti/LSO, which I think is better known than the Solti/CSO of a few years later which I do have. Reviews that I have read suggest that there isn't a significant difference between them.
                        I thought the difference between them was that the CSO one took into account some changed tempo marking? Can't recall now whether it was a misread metronome mark or something rediscovered written in words on sketches/MS score, maybe an assai or a molto???

                        Though I have to confess I didn't notice any radical difference either
                        I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!

                        Comment

                        • rauschwerk
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 1481

                          #13
                          Originally posted by LeMartinPecheur View Post
                          I thought the difference between them was that the CSO one took into account some changed tempo marking? Can't recall now whether it was a misread metronome mark or something rediscovered written in words on sketches/MS score, maybe an assai or a molto???
                          At the time of the CSO recording, it was discovered that in the second movement the metronome mark for the full score was crotchet 74, but for the snare drum part it was crotchet 94 (the correct tempo as shown in the MS). However, I doubt whether Solti or any previous conductor had strictly obeyed the slower marking before this discovery, since it would have resulted in a duration much longer than the 6'17" specified.

                          Comment

                          • Stanfordian
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 9315

                            #14
                            I think the Concerto for Orchestra is blessed with several excellent recordings. I often play the following accounts:
                            a) Philadelphia Orchestra under Eugene Ormandy. Recorded 1963 Town Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
                            b) Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. 1955 ‘Living Stereo’ recording on RCA
                            c) Antal Dorati and the London Symphony Orchestra. 1962 ‘Living Presence’ recording on Mercury.
                            d) Georg Solti and the London Symphony Orchestra from 1965 ‘Legendary Performances’ Decca.
                            e) Mariss Jansons and the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra from 1990 on EMI Classics.

                            Comment

                            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                              Gone fishin'
                              • Sep 2011
                              • 30163

                              #15
                              Originally posted by rauschwerk View Post
                              At the time of the CSO recording, it was discovered that in the second movement the metronome mark for the full score was crotchet 74, but for the snare drum part it was crotchet 94 (the correct tempo as shown in the MS). However, I doubt whether Solti or any previous conductor had strictly obeyed the slower marking before this discovery, since it would have resulted in a duration much longer than the 6'17" specified.
                              Indeed. The movement takes 6'50" with the LSO and 6'11" in Chicago. I remember the emphasis placed on this "discovery" and, like LMP, being distinctly underwhelmed by the result!

                              EDIT and, as you suggest, other conductors have similar tempo differences in their different recordings:

                              Karajan/EMI 6'27"; BPO: 6'50"

                              Dorati: RCO 6'33"; LSO 6' 17

                              Kubelik: RPO 6'32"; BSO 6'38" (there's always one!)
                              Last edited by ferneyhoughgeliebte; 14-06-15, 19:13.
                              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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