Eugene Ormandy

[Petrushka]

A big Sony box of Eugene Ormandy's Philadelphia recordings is shortly due for release and I'm tempted.

However, Ormandy never formed part of my early collecting either on LP or CD apart from a couple of Shostakovich discs (excellent) so I've nothing much to go on.

How is he regarded today? Does his reputation stand up?

I found the big Sony Szell and Walter boxes revelatory though I already knew their work and wonder if Ormandy would provide similar. What do people think?

All opinions appreciated.

[Pulcinella]

Presumably a subset of this 120-CD set?

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8874246--eugene-ormandy-the-columbia-legacy

The Minneapolis recordings (11 CDs) are in this set:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9365468--ormandy-in-minneapolis-the-complete-rca-album-collection

Very little on the shelves here: only the Respighi Roman trilogy (and The birds and Church windows), Carmina Burana, Walton Violin concerto, and DSCH S1 that I can immediately think of.

I imagine that there are some cracking performances though.

PS: Probably not, as I see that the 120-CD set is early mono recordings.

[bluestateprommer]

Haven't heard this set myself (except one or two selections on LP back in the day, from the suburban Philly public library in school days), but here are some outside reviews of this set, on both the minus and plus side:

David Allen, NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/18/arts/music/ormandy-philadelphia-orchestra-classical-music.html

Rob Cowan, MusicWeb International:

http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/May/Ormandy-columbia-19439757482.htm

[FRJames]

I think this stereo box is what the OP is referring to:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eugene-Ormandy-Philadelphia-Orchestra-Collection/dp/B0CDK8TYT5/ref=sr_1_1?crid=25ULTCL768RZQ&keywords=ormandy+stereo&qid=1696263446&s=music&sprefix=ormandy+stereo%2Cclassical%2C71&sr=1-1-catcorr

[Pulcinella]

I think this stereo box is what the OP is referring to:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eugene-Ormandy-Philadelphia-Orchestra-Collection/dp/B0CDK8TYT5/ref=sr_1_1?crid=25ULTCL768RZQ&keywords=ormandy+stereo&qid=1696263446&s=music&sprefix=ormandy+stereo%2Cclassical%2C71&sr=1-1-catcorr

I'm sure it is.
Apologies for clouding the issue (every pun intended!).

[Petrushka]

I'm sure it is.
Apologies for clouding the issue (every pun intended!).

Apologies, my fault! I should have provided the link but FR James is correct.

[Pulcinella]

Apologies, my fault! I should have provided the link but FR James is correct.

No problem.
The Amazon listing is appalling (no composers!) but at first glance I didn't spot another recording I've since realised that I have: the Ravel G major concerto that actually finds its way into the Sony Boulez Ravel box (and the big Boulez Sony box).

[richardfinegold]

There are a lot of interesting discs on the big Ormandy mono boxes, but fortunately most have been available to stream. Pet doesn’t stream, I believe. The stereo boxes are more redundant for me; unlike BSP, Ormandy and Philly were basic purchases when I entered the record buying world, if for no other reason that they were available relatively cheaply on these shores, and I subsequently re- acquired a lot on CD. Ormandy usually give worthwhile accounts of everything he recorded, if not always the prefered version. Really, Pet, you’ll have a great time hearing that Orchestra in sound that easily trumps those Columbia lps of yore

[smittims]

In my experience Ormandy evokes contrasting opinions. I've seen some writers who seem to regard him as little more than a charlatan, one telling us that 'Rachmaninov thought Ormandy was a terrible conductor'. I don't know how much truth there is in that. He stayed at the helm in Philadelphia for about fifty years, and was in demand as a recording conductor for many years, sometimes giving rare and unfamiliar works their first recording.

I take a middle view. I don't think he was one of the eminent masters. But I've never been disappointed on hearing him conduct, and sometimes he is very good indeed.

[Bryn]

My respect for Ormandy has grown, over the years. However, I think some of the more negative assessments of his recordings may well derive from the poor production process used by RCA for their LPs, especially from the 196s, onward. For instance, I was greatly impressed with his Mahler 2 but there was a fairly constant quiet background whistle which started before the first chord of the symphony and continued into the repeat groove at the centre of the discs. Thankfully, it was entirely absent from the CD release which eventually appeared. Even worse was the red vinyl Bartok Concerto for Orchestra. No whistle but worse than normal surface noise. That said, I do not find myself in the market for either the mono or stereo big boxes. Those Ormandy recordings I do not already have on CD, I will be happy to investigate via streaming.

[richardfinegold]

My respect for Ormandy has grown, over the years. However, I think some of the more negative assessments of his recordings may well derive from the poor production process used by RCA for their LPs, especially from the 196s, onward. For instance, I was greatly impressed with his Mahler 2 but there was a fairly constant quiet background whistle which started before the first chord of the symphony and continued into the repeat groove at the centre of the discs. Thankfully, it was entirely absent from the CD release which eventually appeared. Even worse was the red vinyl Bartok Concerto for Orchestra. No whistle but worse than normal surface noise. That said, I do not find myself in the market for either the mono or stereo big boxes. Those Ormandy recordings I do not already have on CD, I will be happy to investigate via streaming.

Very true. Ormandy switched from Columbia to RCA in the seventies. I was working in record shops then was amazed at the awful quality of the lps, which would frequently be returned because they wouldn’t track. Columbia vinyl wasn’t great either, but the RCAs were in a class of their own. At that time there were also stories that the Orchestra was restless with Ormandy who was reportedly demanding louder playing due to his declining hearing . I therefore avoided the Ormandy/RCA recordings. Some time ago I picked up a large CD reissue box of the RCAs and was really pleasantly surprised at how great they sounded on CD. The balances also don’t strike me as being skewed.
If Rachmaninov thought Ormandy was a terrible conductor he was funny about preferring to record with him. Horowitz also requested him when he came out of retirement to record Rachmaninov Three. Serkin prefered to record with him. Some of his best recordings are as an accompanist

[gradus]

Ormandy never really seemed to make it as far as the Gramophone reviewers were concerned in the 60s and 70s. If he was known for anything it was as a conductor who accompanied famous soloists, but whose orchestral recordings were often ignored or dismissed in the UK. No acclaimed symphony cycles, no track record in operas and nothing to show in more modern or contemporary repertoire. He still seems neglected here, high time for a re-appraisal of his work.

[smittims]

I remember those poor CBS and RCA pressings from the mid-70s. When Ormandy moved ot EMI at the end of his career (Sibelius, Hindemith etc.) he had better sound.

The new box is very tempting, but as I've stopped buying CDs now and have most of the Ormandy discs I want, I'll pass.

[mikealdren]

I have recordings of him accompanying Francescatti, Heifetz, Kreisler, Oistrakh, Perlman, Rachmaninov, Rostropovitch and Stern. If they were happy to work with him, he can't have been too bad!
I have a few other good recordings of his too.

[Petrushka]

Thanks to all for the views expressed and from them it's easy to see why I am somewhat confused about whether to consider buying the new box because these are exactly the opposing thoughts buzzing around in my own head.

The post that had me vigorously nodding my head most was the one from gradus in #12. The Shostakovich CDs I have of the Philadelphia and Ormandy are revelatory and better, in my view, than some more obvious names, the 4th and 15th symphonies in particular. Surely, other records must have at least been equally as good?

Looking at the vast number of recordings made by CBS from Szell, Bernstein, Walter, Ormandy and others from the 1960s they must have been making several records simultaneously every day! It's an awesome legacy.