The greatest conductor of Vaughan Williams' works

[Ferretfancy]

[QUOTE=Observation Postr;482846]Those Vaughan Williams Symphonies

1) “Sea Symphony” (1903) I think that I was put off by hearing too many poor performances of this work

2) “London Symphony” (1913 rev. 1920) A lovely picture in sound of a tour across London. As an enththusiastic teenager, I had an ambition to create a movie with this work as background music.

3) “Pastoral Symphony” (1921) Is what it says. "Cowpat music" which does nothing for me. (Sorry)

4) un-named (1934) Like Walton's 1st. Savage. Auto biographical, revealing all RVW's frustrations and disappointments. My favourite of his symphonies

5) un-named (1943) It's wartime. Dreams of an idyllic peace. A panacea for music lovers.

6) “Arctic” (1947) Another effective sound portrait. Written for the film's background music?

7) un-named (1952) Possibly an attempt to replicate Nº 4 in line with postwar styles. Doesn't work for me.

I don't know anything about the later symphonies, so can make no comment.

For me, RVW's greatest achievement is his Tallis Fantasia. I could listen to it all afternoon.[/QUOTE

The sixth Symphony has never been named " Arctic" as far as I know. No. 7 is "Antartica" using much revamped music from the film Scott of the Antarctic. Notice only one C in the title, it's what Vaughan Williams wanted. It certainly was not meant to replicate the style of No. 4.

As for "cowpat music', this is a foolish canard. The strongest influence on the development of the Pastoral was the experiences that Vaughan Williams had on the Western Front, hence the echo of The Last Post which is one of his most haunting moments.

I agree with you about the Tallis Fantasia, and I'm pleased to see that Sancta Civitas is included in this year's Proms.

[visualnickmos]

You appear to know little re. the Pastoral too. Nothing in the least 'cowpat' about it. Blood red poppies are more the source and image evoked.

I agree with you Bryn. I feel that our friend's analyses are rather more 'received' than 'perceived.' Maybe s/he should listen again...

[Pulcinella]

Manze IS recording a complete cycle of RVW symphonies, with the RLPO, on the Oryx Classics label.
The first disc pairs 2 and 8.
This is from BBC Music Magazine, May 2015, page 15!
It will be interesting to compare the results with those of the RLPO under Handley.

[Beef Oven!]

Manze IS recording a complete cycle of RVW symphonies, with the RLPO, on the Oryx Classics label.
It will be interesting to compare the results with those of the RLPO under Handley.

Can't wait.

[ahinton]

Can't wait.

I'd never have credited him as an RVW exponent until I heard the middle symphonies in the Proms last year from him; as outstanding as it was surprising.

[EdgeleyRob]

Those Vaughan Williams Symphonies

1) “Sea Symphony” (1903) I think that I was put off by hearing too many poor performances of this work

2) “London Symphony” (1913 rev. 1920) A lovely picture in sound of a tour across London. As an enththusiastic teenager, I had an ambition to create a movie with this work as background music.

3) “Pastoral Symphony” (1921) Is what it says. "Cowpat music" which does nothing for me. (Sorry)

4) un-named (1934) Like Walton's 1st. Savage. Auto biographical, revealing all RVW's frustrations and disappointments. My favourite of his symphonies

5) un-named (1943) It's wartime. Dreams of an idyllic peace. A panacea for music lovers.

6) “Arctic” (1947) Another effective sound portrait. Written for the film's background music?

7) un-named (1952) Possibly an attempt to replicate Nº 4 in line with postwar styles. Doesn't work for me.

I don't know anything about the later symphonies, so can make no comment.

For me, RVW's greatest achievement is his Tallis Fantasia. I could listen to it all afternoon.

[Beef Oven!]

I'd never have credited him as an RVW exponent until I heard the middle symphonies in the Proms last year from him; as outstanding as it was surprising.

We need ground-breaking musical events like this.

Can't wait.

[richardfinegold]

I had never read anything about the Third Symphony until after I had listened to it a few times. Previn's recording was in my local library and as I was branching out from the 5th and 7th Symphonies I borrowed it. I was familiar with the concept of "English Pastoralism" in music and after my first listening, particularly to the First Movement, I remember thinking that this must be an example of that concept. Subsequent listenings led me to focus more on the latter half of the Symphony, with it's troubled overtones. It was informative when I finally read about the work and discovered that it had been composed on the killing fields of Flanders,and then I understood that this was a lament for a world that was vanishing with the War, never to return.

[richardfinegold]

I'd never have credited him as an RVW exponent until I heard the middle symphonies in the Proms last year from him; as outstanding as it was surprising.

Or a Brahms exponent either. Try his cycle with the Helsingborg Symphony.

[richardfinegold]

Listening to Hickox recording of 6/8. Ordered it eons ago, just arrived today. Pity he died before crossing the finish line.

[BBMmk2]

Listening to Hickox recording of 6/8. Ordered it eons ago, just arrived today. Pity he died before crossing the finish line.

I am thinking re Hickox's recordings of the symphonies. I have No/1, excellent it is, just wondering abouyt the others.
RFG, very good thoughts re the Pastoral.

[Once Was 4]

With the "Most Memorable Concerts" thread in mind, I'd like to nominate a concert for which I would need a Tardis, in order to hear it again - Barbirolli conducting VW5 with the Hallé in the Free Trade Hall, Manchester . This was the first time I had ever heard the work, and, true to Hallé policy at that time, there was a detailed analysis in the programme, complete with musical examples. Post Barbirolli, the Hallé programmes resorted to the the usual publications and were less informative.

But this was an amazing experience, and for me, JB was the VW interpreter.

This takes me back: the programmes for the Bradford Subscription Concerts at St George's Hall (12 per year in two series of 6 - one on Fridays, one on Saturdays) which were all given by the Halle - about half with Sir John - also had detailed programmes with full analysis of each work including plentiful musical examples. I attended virtually all of these from 1962 until I went to music college in Manchester in 1966 - after that intermittently until I joined the world of work in 1970. These were the days when the Bradford Telegraph and Argus was a serious newspaper which employed full time, fully qualified, theatre and music critics. Nowadays it is just a local rag which carries no comment on the arts at all apart from the occasional preview written by journalists who clearly do not know what they are talking about and 'gush' about everything.
I am not sure when that style of programme finished in Bradford but, with the state of musical education in schools over the past 20-30 years, if there were musical examples how many of the audience would be able to read them? (the people who attended in the 60s will be largely enjoying the Celestial Symphony Orchestra by now) and, if the T&A carried proper arts criticism would anybody read it? Or care? I always say that, in those days, you needed to purchase your ticket 2 months in advance. Now, half full and they think that it is a good house.
BTW: a couple of years ago, a well known, long-retired, horn player in his 90s said that he was soon going to be 1st horn of the Celestial Symphony Orchestra and he would ask the conductor - St. Nicholas - for me as 4th horn when my time came. Happily he is still with us and I am not keen to start my new job for at least 10 years - preferably more!

[Beef Oven!]

This takes me back

Which of course is the problem with this thread. It purports to be about music, but it's about oldey worldly times. Times gone by. Old music, performed and recorded in years gone by. We can't live in the past! We need to move on! (Or start a 'nostalgia' thread).

[richardfinegold]

Which of course is the problem with this thread. It purports to be about music, but it's about oldey worldly times. Times gone by. Old music, performed and recorded in years gone by. We can't live in the past! We need to move on! (Or start a 'nostalgia' thread).

Who sez? We don't 'need' to do anything.
The music discussed here is timeless. What difference does it make if we are discussing a performance or recording that happened years ago? Especially when as per an ealier post from Dave 2002, RVW performances are apparently rare on the ground in his home country

[Barbirollians]

It is about the greatest performances and recordings we know . I am always happy indeed delighted to come across great new accounts - as a diversion I shall mention Ingrid Fliter's Chopin Preludes set - a match for anyone as is Mark Elder's VW3