The Guarneri Quartet

[LeMartinPecheur]

Over on today's BaL thread on the Dvorak American quartet I expressed pleasure at hearing the Guarneri Quartet's version getting a very favourable mention (it was one of the half-dozen or so that our reviewer said were pretty much photo-finish at the line). I've recently been massively impressed with their Schubert late quartets in a Newton twofer and wondered if we should have a thread. Aeolium rushed to my support but so far no one else

So, my own limited exposure goes back to LP days when they partnered Artur Rubinstein in the Brahms, Dvorak and Mozart piano quartets and the Schumann quintet on RCA, all still on my shelves. A few months ago on BaL they were highly rated in the Brahms 1st piano quartet and I've since invested in the bargain box of R's complete RCA recordings - highly recommended though I've yet to try their pf quintet. But the Schubert discs are IMHO absolutely wonderful, an opinion shared with a musical best buddy who, like me, is pretty fussy about Schubert quartet performances, D887 in particular.

The River-people show the following recordings as still available:
- Arriaga: Complete quartets (Newton reissue)
- Bartok: Complete quartets (Newton twofer reissue)
- Brahms: pf quartets and quintets with Rubinstein
- Brahms & Henze pf 5tets with Peter Serkin
- Beethoven: Complete quartets
- Dvorak: Last 3 quartets + Terzetto (Newton twofer reissue)
- Dvorak: Pf 5tet (with AR) + American quartet
- Haydn: 7 Last Words (Newton reissue)
- Mendelssohn: Quartet #3 + Octet (with Orion 4tet)
- Mozart: 'Haydn' quartets + complete str quintets
- Mozart: Piano quartets with Artur Rubinstein
- Schubert: String quintet
- Schubert: Last 4 quartets (Newton twofer reissue, the one I own, bought cheapo out of curiosity rather than knowledge from a charity shop!)
- Sibelius & Grieg Quartets
Oddly, my LP of the Dvorak pf 4tet with Rubinstein doesn't seem to be available

As far as I can see they recorded for a long time with RCA then did quite a lot for Philips including the complete LvB. Many of their discs still command silly prices, and clearly someone at Newton believes they merit reissue bigtime.

I haven't been able to track down much in the way of contemporary reviews of their string quartet recordings (must work out how to access Gramophone's archive - I'm paying for it). Were they somehow undervalued over here? Did they ever tour here to build their reputation this side the pond??

All opinions/ memories gratefully received!


-

[JFLL]

... All opinions/ memories [of the Guarneri Quartet] gratefully received!-

I too have a soft spot for the Guarneris -- their Beethoven op. 127 is one of my favourites.

[Don Petter]

Kingfish,

There seem, then, to be quite a few works which were available on LP but are not (and maybe have never been?) on CD.

These I have, boxed up somewhere:

Borodin Quartet 2
Chausson Piano Trio (members of)
Dohnanyi Quartet 2
Faure Quartet
Faure Piano Trio (members of)
Mendelssohn Quartet 2
Smetana Quartet 1
Tchaikovsky Sextet (Souvenir de Florence)(plus two)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I know their work only from their Bartok set - in fact, I learnt the works from this very LP set:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/String-Quartets-Guarneri-Quartet-Stereo/dp/B00BKZ8P4M/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420930825&sr=1-2&keywords=guarneri+quartet%2C+bartok

Serviceable, I thought - but rather dull; hearing the Lindsay's concerts of the works revealed how they should go, and the Tokyo's set soon replaced the Guarneri's. So uninspiring did I find their Bartok that I have never actively sought them in any other repertoire.

[Stanley Stewart]

I've always had a high regard for the Guarneri's. Only a few days since I listened to their RCA recording of the Schubert String Quintet/Leonard Rose - high definition performance. I also recommend Arnold Steinhardt's memoir, Indivisible by Four, (1998) which outlines their extensive recording career over many decades; their individuality as performers in rehearsals, yet gauge an interactivity which usually delivered that 'little something extra' as an ensemble on the platform.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I know their work only from their Bartok set - in fact, I learnt the works from this very LP set:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/String-Quartets-Guarneri-Quartet-Stereo/dp/B00BKZ8P4M/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420930825&sr=1-2&keywords=guarneri+quartet%2C+bartok

Serviceable, I thought - but rather dull; hearing the Lindsay's concerts of the works revealed how they should go, and the Tokyo's set soon replaced the Guarneri's. So uninspiring did I find their Bartok that I have never actively sought them in any other repertoire.

Ah, I was hoping the Newton reissue might be a steal. Only got 3 sets of Bartoks - Hungarian (LP) plus Belcea and Takacs on CD

[Richard Tarleton]

And can I put in another word for Arnold Steinhardt's "Indivisible by Four" ? An absorbing account of the life of the quartet, from their first meetings as students to the twilight of their career as a quartet. Fascinating.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ah, I was hoping the Newton reissue might be a steal. Only got 3 sets of Bartoks - Hungarian (LP) plus Belcea and Takacs on CD

Well, it's certainly inexpensive, and I would certainly solicit the opinions of others about the merits of the Guarneri set - but I don't think anyone would violently object to the statement that the three sets you already have give better insights into the works.

[aeolium]

I would like to know more Guarneri recordings. I like the Arriaga disc very much, as mentioned on another thread, and I also like the Schubert Death and the Maiden recording (the D887, though very eloquent, I find rather on the slow side). What I've heard of the late Dvorak quartets, particularly the G major op 106, I've thought very good. Their music-making has great clarity, so that the individual detail can be heard, and they seem to emphasise the lyrical over the dramatic, but still bring out the folk idioms in the Dvorak. One reason for my neglect of their discs is that they were mainly recording while the Quartetto Italiano were at their peak, and it was the latter's Beethoven quartet cycle, and late Schubert, that captivated me (and it was a time when it was hard to afford more than one version of a work, unlike now). And then many new ensembles came to the fore and the Guarneris were rather forgotten about. I'm glad their recordings are being rediscovered.

[Gordon]

I had their Beethoven Op18 and Op59 for some years and thought them fine even if the RCA recordings were rather close. As time passed I began to think that the performances a bit too hard driven, after I had moved on the the Italians.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I would like to know more Guarneri recordings. I like the Arriaga disc very much, as mentioned on another thread, and I also like the Schubert Death and the Maiden recording (the D887, though very eloquent, I find rather on the slow side). What I've heard of the late Dvorak quartets, particularly the G major op 106, I've thought very good. Their music-making has great clarity, so that the individual detail can be heard, and they seem to emphasise the lyrical over the dramatic, but still bring out the folk idioms in the Dvorak. One reason for my neglect of their discs is that they were mainly recording while the Quartetto Italiano were at their peak, and it was the latter's Beethoven quartet cycle, and late Schubert, that captivated me (and it was a time when it was hard to afford more than one version of a work, unlike now). And then many new ensembles came to the fore and the Guarneris were rather forgotten about. I'm glad their recordings are being rediscovered.

aeolium: I'm interested in your comments on D887. For me, the Italianos are the ones who are hopelessly slow, and timings confirm this - in all these quartets they are far slower than the Guarneris.


When my mate and I had our D887 session I'd just bought the Gs and coincidentally had also just been given the Philips twofer of the Is, of which I already had the D887 on LP from student days and had always hated it! Listening to it again after the Gs, I could dimly see something good in it and my mate positively liked it, tho' not in preference to the Gs. So he will get my old LP...

What he highlighted and which slightly changed my impression was a quality of 'progressive discovery' and somehow increasing certainty in the I's performance. But I think I still prefer ones that that give the impression of knowing exactly what the work does and where it is headed from bar 1, if this makes any sense

[aeolium]

aeolium: I'm interested in your comments on D887. For me, the Italianos are the ones who are hopelessly slow, and timings confirm this - in all these quartets they are far slower than the Guarneris.

When my mate and I had our D887 session I'd just bought the Gs and coincidentally had also just been given the Philips twofer of the Is, of which I already had the D887 on LP from student days and had always hated it! Listening to it again after the Gs, I could dimly see something good in it and my mate positively liked it, tho' not in preference to the Gs. So he will get my old LP...

Yes - just to clarify, I should say that I was captivated by the Italians when I first heard them in the Schubert, particularly the intensity of the interpretation of D887 (I had never heard it before so had nothing to compare it with). This was at a time when IIRC tempi generally were slower than we are used to now and these days I would probably prefer to hear the Takacs or the Belcea version. What I meant to say was that the Guarneri were simply off my radar at that time - it was just far less easy to hear multiple versions.

I don't know whether you have experienced this phenomenon but I have sometimes felt that one performance dragged compared with another even though, on absolute timings, it is quicker! I think I would still feel now that the Italians were worth hearing in that D887 recording even though they take longer over the performance because of the drama and intensity.

[mikealdren]

I heard them several times from the early 1970s on. In my view quartet playing technical standards generally have risen enormously in the last 40 years and the Guarneri were at the forefront of this rise in the 1970s, their polish and intonation were superb. None of the Amadeus or Lindsay's technical frailty or intonation worries here! I also love Arnold Steinhardt's sound, it's distinctive and, to me at least, marvellous.

The downside is the American style that Robert Philip alluded to yesterday, they tended to drive hard and fast, Beethoven on steroids!

Their Dvorak Op105/Smetana From my life coupling is very good

Mike

[LeMartinPecheur]

Yes - just to clarify, I should say that I was captivated by the Italians when I first heard them in the Schubert, particularly the intensity of the interpretation of D887 (I had never heard it before so had nothing to compare it with).

Yes, when I first discovered the work c1972 via R3 the only recording available here was the Amadeus DG, which I heard on the radio and loathed!

We don't know we're born now with so many performances easily available!

[pastoralguy]

And can I put in another word for Arnold Steinhardt's "Indivisible by Four" ? An absorbing account of the life of the quartet, from their first meetings as students to the twilight of their career as a quartet. Fascinating.

Thank you for that. Duly ordered.