Mozart Clarinet Concerto

[Barbirollians]

Although I seem to have acquired numerous recordings over the years two have always stood out to my ears.

The legendarily indulgent Brymer/Beecham and the pioneering basset clarinet version by Thea King on Hyperion .

I have a new favourite and it is not the recent martin Frost good as that is but Kari Kriikku 's Ondine version coupled with three concertos by Molter which whilst interesting pale spectacularly beside the Mozart .

. He is such a thoughtful, endlessly interesting player . His versions of the Crusell concertos lead the field too .

Which is your favourite ?

[Petrushka]

I've only got three recordings of this inexhaustible masterpiece: Jack Brymer LSO/Colin Davis, Leopold Wlach VPO/Karajan and Alfred Prinz VPO/Böhm.

The Brymer is easily my favourite and has been my default version for many years.

[MickyD]

For me, it has to be Anthony Pay and the Academy of Ancient Music.

[Pabmusic]

Although I seem to have acquired numerous recordings over the years two have always stood out to my ears.

The legendarily indulgent Brymer/Beecham and the pioneering basset clarinet version by Thea King on Hyperion .

I have a new favourite and it is not the recent martin Frost good as that is but Kari Kriikku 's Ondine version coupled with three concertos by Molter which whilst interesting pale spectacularly beside the Mozart .

. He is such a thoughtful, endlessly interesting player . His versions of the Crusell concertos lead the field too .

Which is your favourite ?

I have and love the Brymer and King versions. But I've always been very fond of Gervase de Peyer with Anthony Collins.

[Tony Halstead]

Although I seem to have acquired numerous recordings over the years two have always stood out to my ears.

The legendarily indulgent Brymer/Beecham and the pioneering basset clarinet version by Thea King on Hyperion .

I have a new favourite and it is not the recent martin Frost good as that is but Kari Kriikku 's Ondine version coupled with three concertos by Molter which whilst interesting pale spectacularly beside the Mozart .

. He is such a thoughtful, endlessly interesting player . His versions of the Crusell concertos lead the field too .

Which is your favourite ?

Although sadly he didn't record the Mozart 'commercially', the late Alan Hacker was even more of a 'pioneer' than Thea King in that he was performing it on an extended clarinet in concert at least 20 years before Ms King. I played in one of the BBC orchestras in 1966 when Mr Hacker did a 'live' R3 broadcast of the concerto (no chance of any 're-takes') on an extended or 'basset' clarinet in A, conducted, I think, by Graham Treacher as both he and Alan had York University connections.

Let's be clear, though, that these pioneers ( Hacker and King) were not playing 'authentic' instruments but speculatively re-created 'modern' clarinets whose compass was extended downwards by a major 3rd from a (written) low E to low C ( sounding C# and A respectively).
The very first recording using a period/ authentic basset clarinet was made by Antony Pay with Chris Hogwood and The AAM in the mid-1980s. I agree with MickyD - it's a superb performance but in my view it has been equalled - if not actually 'bettered' by Colin Lawson and The Hanover Band with Roy Goodman. I love both performances - Pay with a more astringent, almost searing tone in places ( very much in the Hacker fashion) and Lawson smoother and more mellifluous in sound, the tonal creaminess rather helped by the reverberant Nimbus recording. By the way, that typical hazy sound is almost a 'period' phenomenon now, as the more recent Nimbus recordings that I've heard have all had more clarity and focus than those 1980s-1990s Hanover Band recordings.
I wonder whether the 'Ambisonic' single-point microphone is no longer used?

[visualnickmos]

I have and love the Brymer and King versions. But I've always been very fond of Gervase de Peyer with Anthony Collins.

....which I think I'm correct in assuming it has never been released on CD? It was the first classical record (vinyl) that I ever purchased. A Decca 'Eclipse' which I still possess, but it's worn to paper-thin! I've been looking for a CD of it on and off for years....

Jack Brymer, with Beecham or Colin Davis..... both excellent, as well as Gervase de Peyer and Peter Maag, on Decca.... amongst others.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have and love the Brymer and King versions. But I've always been very fond of Gervase de Peyer with Anthony Collins.

Thea King - yes. But Jack Brymer wobbles. Vibrato on a clarinet sounds sickly to me.

[amateur51]

Thanks to all for a fascinating and informative thread.

Imagine an Interpretations on Record programme incorporating this discussion with played examples. Available as a podcast too.

What a library of delight that would be, Mr Davey

[richardfinegold]

For me, it has to be Anthony Pay and the Academy of Ancient Music.

I also have the first Frost recording and a couple others that I managed to acquire as fillers for other works, but it's Pay for Play when I want to listen to the piece.

[Dave2002]

I wonder whether the 'Ambisonic' single-point microphone is no longer used?

It would be interesting to know about this. A few years ago it did seem that Ambisonic techniques were still being used by various recording engineers, and one mentioned or wrote that for video work and surround sound generally the flexibility of the post recording editing made recording a lot simpler. It would be interesting to have a history of Ambisonics which developed out of Michael Gerzon's ideas, and a system which he called periphony. The initial systems were probably all using analogue technology, and perhaps the Ambisonic decoding was done using analogue circuitry. I'm assuming, since I don't know, that the encoding was done using analogue circuitry too.

Nowadays it would be possible to do decoding using digital processing, though whether that would be better or not might depend on a lot of factors. All sound recording starts off as analogue, so the benefits of digital arise if the captured signal is converted as best as possible, and probably as quickly as possible, into digital formats. After that signal degradation can be minimal depending on how the processing is done. There are also benefits for nth generation copies, which should be (almost?) identical with the original. On the other hand, a good analogue recording can be very good, but storing recordings in analogue form is subject to deterioration over time, and copies will introduce degradation.

[gurnemanz]

Although sadly he didn't record the Mozart 'commercially', the late Alan Hacker was even more of a 'pioneer' than Thea King in that he was performing it on an extended clarinet in concert at least 20 years before Ms King. I played in one of the BBC orchestras in 1966 when Mr Hacker did a 'live' R3 broadcast of the concerto (no chance of any 're-takes') on an extended or 'basset' clarinet in A, conducted, I think, by Graham Treacher as both he and Alan had York University connections.

I remember enjoying Hacker, which years ago I recorded from R3 onto cassette (may still have somewhere). Michael Collins (pupil of Thea King) with Pletnev also plays basset in a sprightly version coupled interestingly with Pletnev's clarinet arrangement of Beethoven Violin Concerto.

I also have Brymer and remember seeing him do it live at the Proms. I only recently got to know the classic Robert Marcellus version with Szell on a Sony cheapie (still available second hand). Apparently, also done in one take and well worth hearing.

[ostuni]

I thought I remembered an earlier period-instrument recording than Pay's, and a quick google brought up Nalen Anthoni's lively survey in the Feb 2012 Gramophone, which mentioned Hans Deinzer's 1973 recording with Collegium Aureum. I bought it when it first came out (in those days I'd buy anything on period instruments, even though most of Collegium Aureum's recordings were pretty disappointing). In 1974, Alan Hacker played it at the Proms, with Boulez - I've still got a cassette somewhere. At the time, Alan was a tutor on a music course I always attended, and I well remember him waxing eloquently about the benefits of the basset version - and certainly I find some of the melodic alterations that were made to fit the conventional compass sound very odd to me, because I've firmly leant towards the basset versions in all my listening since then.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A good basset clarinet costs around £5,500, so here we have a problem. The slightly modified familiar version can be played on any A clarinet that might be in any professional player's armoury, enabling any good player to tackle this gem of the clarinet repertoire. Forumites will be aware that I generally prefer works to be played on modern instruments, as these are merely developments of the instruments for which the music was originally conceived. But Mozart's late clarinet works are a different matter, involving a tinkering with the actual notes. Playing K622 on a modern clarinet is like playing the great Bach oboe d'amore obligatos on the oboe (which I do, frequently, to avoid the cost of an oboe d'amore). For professional performances, however, it does seem right to go for the real thing.

[MickyD]

Thanks for the link to the Gramophone reviews...I didn't realise that Harnoncourt had done a version, must try and give it a listen. And it's on a budget disc, too!

[Ferretfancy]

It would be interesting to know about this. A few years ago it did seem that Ambisonic techniques were still being used by various recording engineers, and one mentioned or wrote that for video work and surround sound generally the flexibility of the post recording editing made recording a lot simpler. It would be interesting to have a history of Ambisonics which developed out of Michael Gerzon's ideas, and a system which he called periphony. The initial systems were probably all using analogue technology, and perhaps the Ambisonic decoding was done using analogue circuitry. I'm assuming, since I don't know, that the encoding was done using analogue circuitry too.

Nowadays it would be possible to do decoding using digital processing, though whether that would be better or not might depend on a lot of factors. All sound recording starts off as analogue, so the benefits of digital arise if the captured signal is converted as best as possible, and probably as quickly as possible, into digital formats. After that signal degradation can be minimal depending on how the processing is done. There are also benefits for nth generation copies, which should be (almost?) identical with the original. On the other hand, a good analogue recording can be very good, but storing recordings in analogue form is subject to deterioration over time, and copies will introduce degradation.

Meridian have always supported Ambisonics,but they claim that SACD is over engineered. I have a Meridian 561 system which provides several options for surround sound listening. Apart from Dolby Digital, the system provides convincing synthesis of surround sound derived from normal 2 channel sources. As everything is handled in digital mode there are very few spurious effects. I use the option called Super Stereo which works very well, providing a good sense of involvement, especially on recordings with natural reverberation. Sound from the rear speakers is not apparent from the listening position, but try switching the rear channels of and the improvement is obvious. Most of the choices available make use of ambisonic software, but you can always switch to straight stereo.

The programme controller is not designed for SACD surround. I would be interested to compare the synthesised results with discrete surround, but I'm very happy with the existing results.

There are still a few LPs in my collection mastered in SQ quadraphonic sound, I keep meaning to ask Meridian what function they recommend for best results. In my past experience with a purely passive analogue decoder the results were very variable, but my speakers back in the 1970s weren't up to much!