CDs, downloads, streaming

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Robert von Bahr, boss of BIS?

[mahlerei]

The booklet issue again. Recurrence, a new Sono Luminus album of contemporary Icelandic music, appears on eClassical and Qobuz sans documentation. The omission is all the more frustrating where new music is concerned. I have emailed SL and will pass on their response.

UPDATE: Had a reply within the hour, including a copy of the booklet. I have been advised to 'reach out' if I need these notes in the future, which seems like a very odd way to run a business. As so often, SL say they send PDFs to their distributor, but either they - or the vendors - choose not to pass them on. I have my suspicions - one major distributor keeps cropping up - but then most labels don't seem too concerned about the issue. This is something Robert will have a view on, I am sure. He is now registered and I hope he will be able to join us soon.

UPDATE 2: Out of curiosity I checked three major vendors - eClassical, Qobuz and HDtracks - and NOT ONE of them offers a booklet with the Recurrence download. And the revolving-door farce continues: HDtracks have just told me they always request PDFs but rarely get them. Frankly I no longer care where the problem lies, it just needs to be sorted.

[Beef Oven!]

In my inexorable movement from CDs to downloads I’ve noticed that some download companies are really expensive. For Example, HDtracks. Qobuz & onkyo are, on balance, good value. Hyperion are even better and have a decent discount scheme. Sony aren’t bad.

I’m disappointed with eClassical - so many times I’ve gone looking for pretty core repertoire and the don’t have it. The only plus I can see is the per second price-model.

Presto are pretty good, reasonably priced, but don’t have such a wide choice as Qobuz.

But why are so many downloads so expensive?

Top 5 Best Download Sites (allegedly)

[cloughie]

But why are so many downloads so expensive?

Because the sellers are 'aving a laugh and there is apparently a market for them, with people prepared to rent rather than own their products!

[jayne lee wilson]

In my inexorable movement from CDs to downloads I’ve noticed that some download companies are really expensive. For Example, HDtracks. Qobuz & onkyo are, on balance, good value. Hyperion are even better and have a decent discount scheme. Sony aren’t bad.

I’m disappointed with eClassical - so many times I’ve gone looking for pretty core repertoire and the don’t have it. The only plus I can see is the per second price-model.

Presto are pretty good, reasonably priced, but don’t have such a wide choice as Qobuz.

But why are so many downloads so expensive?

Top 5 Best Download Sites (allegedly)

I'm surprised you find eclassical lacking in "core repertoire" - just typing BIS into my JRiver search pulls up dozens of hi-res releases of Schumann, Schubert, Bruckner, Beethoven, Mozart, Sibelius, Nielsen I've bought over the last 5 years or so.... most of them garlanded with awards and praise, from performers like Dausgaard, Brautigam, Vanska, Oramo.... beyond that you'll find Berwald, Stravinsky, Dutilleux, generous catalogues of Skalkottas and Aho.... and pricing is equivalent to the disc equivalents with weekly discounts on new releases (far cheaper than the discs).....

Always avoided HDTracks like the plague after early investigations! They didn't offer lifetime backup earlier. Perhaps they've improved. Don't forget TCS, another fairly run business model....

(As for "renting", Cloughie - yesterday I copied some Chandos and Opera Omnia Lutosławski albums from an older computer drive on to my present server, all of them bought 4 or 5 years ago..even 24/96 only takes a coupla minutes... that's good enough ownership for me.
And I do think that Qobuz HiFI lossless streaming at £20 a month is almost stupidly good value....(listening to some Luto there last night I wondered if they've improved it at source...shall have to make comparisons...)
I could do with 36-hour days, but we're a lucky generation of musiclovers - there's too much choice, really.

[Beef Oven!]

I had forgotten about earlier discussions concerning the knack of using the right search terms. You and Bryn are great at this, I’m poor. Maybe this is why I find eClassical wanting. I’ll bear this in mind next time - believe me, I really have been baffled often, not finding things that should be commonplace.

[Beef Oven!]

I’ve just this moment tried an experiment and put "Mátyás Seiber" in the search box of both eClassical and Qobuz.

Here are the results:

eClassical (6 results)

Qobuz (38 results)

I often find this.

[jayne lee wilson]

eClassical - Qobuz.... not comparing like with like.....

eClassical - i.e. BIS online, put a great deal of time and resources into their own recordings of new and unfamiliar music, and the encouragement and recording of young artists. The BIS label also has to budget for the production of physical discs, SACD/CD.

Qobuz are purely a digital Music Service, the most ambitious and comprehensive one extant, especially for classical repertoire.. Their business is entirely about deals with record labels, marketing, selling and streaming - and the sound quality offered. And as a devoted user of Qobuz HIFi AND a regular purchaser of downloads, I can confirm how excellent it is.
But it isn't really fair to mark eClassical down for offering fewer recordings or labels. Their aims & their business model are different. In many ways braver and bolder even, than Qobuz itself.

I wonder, too, if the classical music market could really take another comprehensive Qobuz-style competitor, offering all those Universal, Sony and other labels, lossless and hi-res streaming services as well. .... I'm not sure it could.
Linn and TCS have reduced their range of labels since they started out. Da Capo & Hyperion remain own-label only. There are sound & obvious reasons why.

[Beef Oven!]

It is comparing like with like. They are both companies that sell downloads of music. In eClassical’s case, they stick to classical music. Qobuz also do Rock, Pop, Jazz etc. So it’s even worse that they don’t have as much choice in classical music as Qobuz.

eClassical don’t think of themselves as BIS on-line, this is what they say ...

"Worlds Brightest Classical FLAC and MP3 Music Store
We are a Swedish company founded in 1999 with the vision to satisfy the listening needs of classical music lovers as well as to promote the music of world-class musicians to a larger audience.
eClassical.com is a secure online store open 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Customers and visitors can download classical music in popular downloadable formats like FLAC and MP3 at the highest quality, as well as find out more about classical music.
Our support is fast, personal and always near-by!'

[jayne lee wilson]

Robert Von Bahr is CEO of BIS records and eClassical, they are closely affiliated. Most, if not all, eClassical newsletters highlight new, often very groundbreaking, BIS releases. So I can't imagine that the pool of resources to fund and develop such recording projects is anything but the same one.

Many BIS recordings are available on Qobuz. Are any Qobuz recordings available on eClassical...?
So - go figure....

[Beef Oven!]

Robert Von Bahr is CEO of BIS records and eClassical, they are closely affiliated. Most, if not all, eClassical newsletters highlight new, often very groundbreaking, BIS releases. So I can't imagine that the pool of resources to fund and develop such recording projects is anything but the same one.

Many BIS recordings are available on Qobuz. Are any Qobuz recordings available on eClassical...?
So - go figure....

Well they need to get their finger out if they want to deliver on their mission statement!

("Worlds Brightest Classical FLAC and MP3 Music Store")

[Beef Oven!]

Btw, if anyone is interested , you can get Richard Barrett’s amazing 'Music for Cello & Electronics' as a Hi-Res download from Qobuz for just £11.99, which is excellent value for a 2 CD set of music and playing that considerably extends the boundaries of both.

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/barrett-music-for-cello-and-electronics-arne-deforce-yutaka-oya/3760058360484

(eClassical want virtually $30 dollars for this recording)

[Bryn]

Btw, if anyone is interested , you can get Richard Barrett’s amazing 'Music for Cello & Electronics' as a Hi-Res download from Qobuz for just £11.99, which is excellent value for a 2 CD set of music and playing that considerably extends the boundaries of both.

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/barrett-music-for-cello-and-electronics-arne-deforce-yutaka-oya/3760058360484

(eClassical want virtually $30 dollars for this recording)

Since the "Hi-Res" in this case extends only to the quantization, not the sample rate, the standard CD quality download for £7.99 is also well worth considering. The 24 bit quantization will pretty certainly have been noise shaped to 16 for the latter, so is likely to sound pretty much the same to most ears.

[Beef Oven!]

Since the "Hi-Res" in this case extends only to the quantization, not the sample rate, the standard CD quality download for £7.99 is also well worth considering. The 24 bit quantization will pretty certainly have been noise shaped to 16 for the latter, so is likely to sound pretty much the same to most ears.

That’s even better value!

[Beef Oven!]

The 24 bit quantization will pretty certainly have been noise shaped to 16 for the latter, so is likely to sound pretty much the same to most ears.

I currently have two.