CDs, downloads, streaming

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I always think of downloads as being like the self-service checkouts at supermarkets, where they bend over backwards to persuade you to use them, so that they can employer fewer staff and notch up their profits. Meanwhile the poor customer has to do all the work.

[vinteuil]

... Meanwhile the poor customer has to do all the work.

... as also IKEA flat-packs

[pastoralguy]

I always think of downloads as being like the self-service checkouts at supermarkets, where they bend over backwards to persuade you to use them, so that they can employer fewer staff and notch up their profits. Meanwhile the poor customer has to do all the work.

That's a good analogy, Alpie.

I used to find it ironic that posters in our (recently closed!) cd shop would have written 'also available to download'. So our shop was basically advertising their own cause of decline!

[Stunsworth]

I always think of downloads as being like the self-service checkouts at supermarkets, where they bend over backwards to persuade you to use them, so that they can employer fewer staff and notch up their profits. Meanwhile the poor customer has to do all the work.

Quite the opposite for me. Everything I buy on CD is ripped and replayed via Audirvana. Buying downloads relieves me of the ripping process.

[Richard Barrett]

You could always sit in the car without driving anywhere.

That seems like an obvious idea, but I'm not sure the old battery would survive it.

[Zucchini]

That seems like an obvious idea, but I'm not sure the old battery would survive it.

There is also the risk that you've parked in the layby that in 30mins time becomes the venue for the local Harley Davidson club's loudest exhaust competition

[cloughie]

Quite the opposite for me. Everything I buy on CD is ripped and replayed via Audirvana. Buying downloads relieves me of the ripping process.

Thus confirming the sales are a rip OFF.
Actually the cost saving of record companies of downloads cf CDs could be passed on to the consumer, now what passed my window? Also the record companies have no idea when it comes to selling and pricing of individual tracks for classical buyers but anything over a few minutes mean we have to buy the album.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... as also IKEA flat-packs

[jayne lee wilson]

Thus confirming the sales are a rip OFF.
Actually the cost saving of record companies of downloads cf CDs could be passed on to the consumer, now what passed my window? Also the record companies have no idea when it comes to selling and pricing of individual tracks for classical buyers but anything over a few minutes mean we have to buy the album.

It seems amazing to have to point out again that eclassical have been pricing their hi-res and lossless downloads by-the-second for years now, and offer purchase of individual tracks without financial penalty....they have a large and fascinating catalogue and usually offer the notes too...
Qobuz have hundreds of lossless downloads at £7.99, often cheaper than the new CD and frequently offer cheap purchase of separate tracks, if not as generously as eclassical. TCS likewise.

Personally I don't bother to burn discs. I rely on the lifetime backups most download shops now offer, or my own copies... Nor do I see buying or replaying files as "work", it's always been a lot of fun to try getting the best out of 24-bit, and the sonic differences between drives, computer outputs and CD transports offer another angle of interest.
But obviously the more you put into it the more you get out. Pay $60 or $70 for a sophisticated, visually appealing player like JRiver, Audirvana etc and the whole process becomes much more pleasurable.

It's worth adding that any residual technophobia will also lead more listeners away from using the new Radio 3 FLAC lossless stream via firefox, which would be a great pity given the pleasures it offers, a lovely sound we've not had since the pre-Optimod days on FM...

[teamsaint]

I'd be reasonably happy to play around with things the way JLW,suggests, but it really doesn't suit my , er, lifestyle right now, and at the end of the day, even though the results can I'm sure be great, it does amount to us doing their work.

As for trusting other peoples clouds to be there indefinitely......Hmmmm.......

[mahlerei]

i went over to the dark side a few years back and don't regret it. I no longer have storage problems and I can now call up music files on the Mac within seconds and start paying them just as quickly. I've even ripped all my SACDs using the PlayStation method and new ones can be had via NativeDSD and the like. I'm fortunate in that I seldom have to pay for my downloads, but I'm still conscious that many of them are overpriced (especially the high-res ones). However, the per-second charging model and discounted bundles at eClassical mean that new releses are often cheaper than the equivalent discs. Also, they're usually available to download weeks before the discs hit the shops.

Downsides? The occasional downloading problem - quite rare - and the lack of documentation.

[HighlandDougie]

it does amount to us doing their work.

Sorry, TS, I'm struggling to understand how a transaction involving buying an album in digital form from, say, Qobuz or e-classical.com or HD Tracks differs from buying an album as a physical object from, say, MDT? Whose "work" am I supposed to be doing?

As a PS to Jayne, thanks for the tip-off about the Radio 3 stream - sounds terrific (not so sure about the content, though).

[teamsaint]

Sorry, TS, I'm struggling to understand how a transaction involving buying an album in digital form from, say, Qobuz or e-classical.com or HD Tracks differs from buying an album as a physical object from, say, MDT? Whose "work" am I supposed to be doing?

As a PS to Jayne, thanks for the tip-off about the Radio 3 stream - sounds terrific (not so sure about the content, though).

Most of the downloading I have done involves a fair bit of my time and effort in getting the music the way I want it, in the place I want it.

I don't have that with a CD. No problems with downloads, they are part of the mix that record companies need. They just aren't ,for the most part, for me right now.

Edit: Distributing an electronic file is a lot less work for the company than distributing a physical copy.

[mahlerei]

Edit: Distributing an electronic file is a lot less work for the company than distributing a physical copy.

Are you sure about that? Most labels send their inventory to distributors (Naxos of America, for example) and they do the actual selling. The downside is that if a distributor goes bust the stockpiled product is often lost (as has happened in the past). Hosting a sophisticated website with the necessary servers, ordering/payment protocols and support staff ain't cheap or straightforward, as I'm sure BIS, Chandos, Hyperion, Pentatone and Channel will surely testify.

I also don't get this 'too much work' thing. i can be browsing at three am - I'm not a good sleeper - see something I want, store it and have it ready to play within minutes. It really couldn't be easier.

[teamsaint]

Are you sure about that? Most labels send their inventory to distributors (Naxos of America, for example) and they do the actual selling. The downside is that if a distributor goes bust the stockpiled product is often lost (as has happened in the past). Hosting a sophisticated website with the necessary servers, ordering/payment protocols and support staff ain't cheap or straightforward, as I'm sure BIS, Chandos, Hyperion, Pentatone and Channel will surely testify.

I also don't get this 'too much work' thing. i can be browsing at three am - I'm not a good sleeper - see something I want, store it and have it ready to play within minutes. It really couldn't be easier.

yep, I'm pretty sure, certainly in books.

We sell ebooks, a lot of them. After a very cheap file conversion,(10's of pounds per title) we just watch the cash roll in, really.We have to pay a third party to " distribute" but it is a doddle compared to physical books, as reflected in the ( including VAT) lower cost price.


Physical books, we have to print, warehouse, distribute, take returns, and possibly eventually pulp etc. These processes are very expensive too.

And, as per my earlier post, the proportion of sales of ebooks( of total sales) is falling, and the same pattern is happening in the music market, where the fall in CD sales is close to levelling off, and download revenues are falling rapidly.

Ebooks are between 10 and 15% of our total sales at present.
Clearly my knowledge is based in books rather than music, where perhaps the costs of distribution of downloads are greater and the mechanisms are more complex.

Re your point about distributors, costs may well still fall on the record company. In common with most publishers, we use a third party distributor, but we pay them for every step of the process that they undertake for us.Those costs include a charge for warehousing, if stock fails to sell at a set rate.