The Glory of Decca Phase4---Hmmm!

[seabright]

The balance engineers were invariably Arthur Lilley, who showed a degree of subtlety and taste, and Arthur Bannister, who was more brash.
Arthur Bannister was the recording producer of the infamous HMS Pinafore.

However, for Orff's Carmina Burana, Kenneth Wilkinson was a balance engineer for this Kingsway Hall recording, and the quality shines through.

Mention of Arthur Lilley reminds me that he is to be observed, chain-smoking, about 24 minutes into a 1970 American TV documentary on Stokowski. He can be seen setting up the mikes in Walthamstow Town Hall and presiding over the control panel for Stokey's LPO recording (not the LSO, as stated on the soundtrack) of the Beethoven 5th. This wasn't one of Stokowski's best Phase-4 performances but I assume it's the only extant piece of film showing the highly-regarded Arthur Lilley in action ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt9HLz5v_k0

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Thanks for that info and link, seabright.
I suppose the best thing that came out of Decca Phase 4 was the rebooting of the recording careers of Stokowski and Dorati.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Thanks for that info and link, seabright.
I suppose the best thing that came out of Decca Phase 4 was the rebooting of the recording careers of Stokowski and Dorati.

[cloughie]

Thanks for that info and link, seabright.
I suppose the best thing that came out of Decca Phase 4 was the rebooting of the recording careers of Stokowski and Dorati.

...and some late Munch and Leinsdorf!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

…and Fistoulari

[Ferretfancy]

The Glory of Decca Phase4---Hmmm!

I recently spent a week in hospital, and when I came home I decided to indulge in a little nostalgia by buying the recent Decca Phase 4 box.

Back in the 60s I borrowed quite a few of these LPs from the Covent Garden Branch of Ivan March's Long Playing Record Library, and listened to them on my rather inadequate sound system in our small flat.

There are 40 CDs plus a bonus in this collection, the cardboard sleeve of each disc a facsimile of the original LP, which means that you need a magnifying glass to read the original notes. Additionally, most of the discs have extra items that can only be located by consulting the rather awkward little booklet, and the track numbers no longer match in some cases.

Am I enjoying the music? Well, I doubt if I will want to listen to Robert Merrill singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic, or Eileen Farrell in Bless this House. Although most of the recordings were made in London, the programme emphasis is very much aimed at the American market.

I would say that as a whole, none of the performances rise much above the competent, and this feeling is reinforced by the very nature of the recording technique. Everything has a very restricted dynamic range, so that all the music assumes a relentlessly loud quality which is very exhausting to hear. You get the impression that there is some rather good playing struggling to get out of a dynamic strait jacket.

As an example, I was rather looking forward to Fistoulari's complete Swan Lake with the Netherlands Radio PO, but the absurdly close woodwind balance makes it sound like a Vivaldi flute concerto. Naturally I haven't yet heard some significant items, Stokowski's Beethoven 9, or Leinsdorf's Mahler 1, but I'm not hopeful.

I award two Raspberry Prizes based on what I've heard so far. Arthur Fiedler conducts what must surely be the dullest performance of Vltava ever committed to disc. My second choice has to be Ilana Vered's solo recital, particularly her attempt at Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy. Not only is it just rattled through, but the sound of the piano is truly bizarre, spread across the speakers like Marilyn Monroe on top of Niagara Falls, with a rumbling bass to match -dreadful!

One final comment. I happen to have three of these recordings already in what must be different masterings. Ruggiero Ricci's Tchaikovsky and Mendelssohn on an old Decca Weekend, the Khachaturyan disc on the same label, and a bargain disc of Stokowski in Mussorgsky. All of them offer sound which is warmer and more convincing than the Phase4 issues. It is as if they have been completely remixed. This raises the question, how was the mastering of this collection supervised, and did they return to the original sources which were mixed down from 20 track to 4 track. The book offers no clues.

[makropulos]

I recently spent a week in hospital, and when I came home I decided to indulge in a little nostalgia by buying the recent Decca Phase 4 box.

Back in the 60s I borrowed quite a few of these LPs from the Covent Garden Branch of Ivan March's Long Playing Record Library, and listened to them on my rather inadequate sound system in our small flat.

There are 40 CDs plus a bonus in this collection, the cardboard sleeve of each disc a facsimile of the original LP, which means that you need a magnifying glass to read the original notes. Additionally, most of the discs have extra items that can only be located by consulting the rather awkward little booklet, and the track numbers no longer match in some cases.

Am I enjoying the music? Well, I doubt if I will want to listen to Robert Merrill singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic, or Eileen Farrell in Bless this House. Although most of the recordings were made in London, the programme emphasis is very much aimed at the American market.

I would say that as a whole, none of the performances rise much above the competent, and this feeling is reinforced by the very nature of the recording technique. Everything has a very restricted dynamic range, so that all the music assumes a relentlessly loud quality which is very exhausting to hear. You get the impression that there is some rather good playing struggling to get out of a dynamic strait jacket.

As an example, I was rather looking forward to Fistoulari's complete Swan Lake with the Netherlands Radio PO, but the absurdly close woodwind balance makes it sound like a Vivaldi flute concerto. Naturally I haven't yet heard some significant items, Stokowski's Beethoven 9, or Leinsdorf's Mahler 1, but I'm not hopeful.

I award two Raspberry Prizes based on what I've heard so far. Arthur Fiedler conducts what must surely be the dullest performance of Vltava ever committed to disc. My second choice has to be Ilana Vered's solo recital, particularly her attempt at Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy. Not only is it just rattled through, but the sound of the piano is truly bizarre, spread across the speakers like Marilyn Monroe on top of Niagara Falls, with a rumbling bass to match -dreadful!

One final comment. I happen to have three of these recordings already in what must be different masterings. Ruggiero Ricci's Tchaikovsky and Mendelssohn on an old Decca Weekend, the Khachaturyan disc on the same label, and a bargain disc of Stokowski in Mussorgsky. All of them offer sound which is warmer and more convincing than the Phase4 issues. It is as if they have been completely remixed. This raises the question, how was the mastering of this collection supervised, and did they return to the original sources which were mixed down from 20 track to 4 track. The book offers no clues.

Like all such boxes, it has uneven moments, but my reaction has been far, far more positive. Some of the Stokowski performances are wonderful, and there are discs like the Bernard Herrmann film music, the stunning Ben Hur conducted by Rozsa, and Fiedler's Gershwin - all of them highly enjoyable to my ears. The "awkward booklet" is just a booklet - not sure what's awkward about it and it has interesting notes on the Phase 4 recording process. Fistoulari's Swan Lake isn't as spirited as his extended extracts with the Concertgebouw (on Australian Eloquence), but it still has a fine balletic feeling to it. The Dorati discs are generally fine too, especially the New World.

[Ferretfancy]

Like all such boxes, it has uneven moments, but my reaction has been far, far more positive. Some of the Stokowski performances are wonderful, and there are discs like the Bernard Herrmann film music, the stunning Ben Hur conducted by Rozsa, and Fiedler's Gershwin - all of them highly enjoyable to my ears. The "awkward booklet" is just a booklet - not sure what's awkward about it and it has interesting notes on the Phase 4 recording process. Fistoulari's Swan Lake isn't as spirited as his extended extracts with the Concertgebouw (on Australian Eloquence), but it still has a fine balletic feeling to it. The Dorati discs are generally fine too, especially the New World.

I'd certainly agree about the Stokowski, and Maazel gives a very good account of Death and Transfiguration, where the restricted dynamics seem less obvious. I've enjoyed some of the shorter items such as The Dance of the Hours, but why are there two versions of Capriccio Espagnol when Stokey's one is so good? So much depends on whether you mind such up front presentation. The notes on Phase4 really tell very little. In actual fact it was introduced just as Decca were designing and building multi channel mixers, and Tony D'Amato was able to exploit them. It was really just a PR puff, as was Decca's Sonicstage technology.

I'll make a point of listening to the Dorati offerings over the next couple of days, I've always admired his many recordings, especially the ones he made for Mercury with the LSO. That's quite another oddity, he recorded all the Tchaikovsky symphonies, but the Mercury boxes only contain No.4 Dorati's wonderful Coq D'Or is missing too.
I hope I'm not too tetchy, I'm glad there is much to enjoy for both of us.

[Nick Armstrong]

Happened to be by a radio a while ago and saw that the (Right!) Hon. David Mellor was spending 2 hours featuring this box on Classic FM, so having read this thread, I tuned in for the end... Some rough sounding Tchaikovsky and Mr Mellor's oh-so-discerning sign-off "40 CDs, marvellous stuff" made me wish I hadn't bothered...

[EdgeleyRob]

Happened to be by a radio a while ago and saw that the (Right!) Hon. David Mellor was spending 2 hours featuring this box on Classic FM, so having read this thread, I tuned in for the end... Some rough sounding Tchaikovsky and Mr Mellor's oh-so-discerning sign-off "40 CDs, marvellous stuff" made me wish I hadn't bothered...

David Mellor's presenting style can be irritating Cal,but he seems to know his stuff where classical records are concerned tbf.
I quite enjoy his new releases show.
Does that make me a bad person ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've merged the two Phase 4 threads. It helped to decide which one to comment in.

Having now listened to most of this box, I can confirm that it's a very mixed bag. In some recordings (e.g. The Pines/Fountains of Rome) the artificiality seems more acceptable than in others (Til Eulenspiegel, which is like a game of table tennis).

Sometimes there is little evidence of the balance engineers' tinkering. Stokowski's Beethoven 9 would be an acceptable recording by any standard. But dynamic compression is often an issue, even when it is cleverly done. In Mahler 1, with Erich Leinsdorf, the climactic moments in the finale are completely muffed, which (for a 1969 recording) isn't really acceptable.

I've still to experience Vivaldi's Four Seasons with Stokowski, but as I've only ever heard the work once, I shan't be in a position to pass judgement.

[cloughie]

David Mellor's presenting style can be irritating Cal,but he seems to know his stuff where classical records are concerned tbf.
I quite enjoy his new releases show.
Does that make me a bad person ?

I think a London cabbie has indicated that too!

[Ferretfancy]

[QUOTE=Eine Alpensinfonie;449347]I've merged the two Phase 4 threads. It helped to decide which one to comment in.

Having now listened to most of this box, I can confirm that it's a very mixed bag. In some recordings (e.g. The Pines/Fountains of Rome) the artificiality seems more acceptable than in others (Til Eulenspiegel, which is like a game of table tennis).

Sometimes there is little evidence of the balance engineers' tinkering. Stokowski's Beethoven 9 would be an acceptable recording by any standard. But dynamic compression is often an issue, even when it is cleverly done. In Mahler 1, with Erich Leinsdorf, the climactic moments in the finale are completely muffed, which (for a 1969 recording) isn't really acceptable.

I've still to experience Vivaldi's Four Seasons with Stokowski, but as I've only ever heard the work once, I shan't be in a position to pass judgement.[/Q

Ein Alpensinfonie

To have only heard The Four seasons once is surely one of the finest achievements I've come across on these boards so far! How did you manage it ? I can only assume that you are never kept waiting on hold while on the phone!

I've been around long enough to remember the stir that the ASMF recording made when it first appeared on the Argo label. Unfortunately this led to the work's sickening popularity. Stokey makes a bit of a hash of it on the Phase 4 box, but i suspect it's indestructible even at his hands. In fairness he did record some baroque items for Vanguard, and they are very enjoyable, and I rate his Mozart Serenade for Thirteen Wind Instruments one of the best performances around. ( If it is still in the catalogue)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

To have only heard The Four seasons once is surely one of the finest achievements I've come across on these boards so far! How did you manage it ? I can only assume that you are never kept waiting on hold while on the phone!

I have heard the aforementioned telephone music, which is what put me off listening to the Kennedy CD that someone gave me. The Cologne Chamber Orchestra played it locally in concert quite recently, so I heard the Four Seasons in its entirety for the very first time.

[VodkaDilc]

I have dithered about buying this set - the views did not seem very positive here. However the very full review in the current IRR (by one of our contributors, I think) has filled me with enthusism and I am about to order it. At about £2 a CD I can put up with a few duds.

As an after-thought, isn't it noticeable that the sort of enthusiastic and thorough reviews we get in IRR are far more likely to send the reader to the record shop (or website) than the Ivan March style blandness of most reviews in other publications?