Karl Bohm's DG Bruckner 8

[mathias broucek]

I have the Horenstein, at least. It was my first exposure to the 8th. I still think it compares next to Furtwangler, mono recording and all.

I enjoy particularly like Horenstein's finale. As well as some good tempo management, the LSO brass give some good "welly" which is far from inappropriate IMHO

[vinteuil]

Some would argue the precise opposite of course.... #thosemissingbarsarequitenice

With Jochum there's the same Haas/Novak thing. The decent sound stereo recordings (Berlin, Dresden, RCO, Bamberg) are all Novak whereas his 1949 DG 8th in Hamburg and the live Frankfurt recording on Tahra are Haas

... the only answer, obvi, is to get ALL performances with conductors/orchestras you like, so that over time you will acquire all variant Haas/Novak/ other 'versions'. And then listen to them, lots, (preferably avec scores of the various editions). You may then begin to approximate (ain't infinitesimal calculus great?) an understanding of what these works might ultimately 'be' (I use the term loosely). And, with any luck, you might get great joy in the process...

[richardfinegold]

There are, I think. four extant Furtwangler performances of the Bruckner 8, available on various labels, none of them, alas, in terribly good sound. By far the best, in my view, is the earliest of them, a recording made in the Musikverein with the VPO for the Reichsrundfunk on October 17 1944 (70 years ago this Friday) and I'm guessing that this is the one you mean. It is a blistering performance at white heat with the slightly acid sound actually aiding that impression. The trumpet fanfare at the first movement climax cries into the abyss as no other version does. The recording is worth hearing for that moment alone.

Two other recordings date from March 14 1949 (indifferent sound) and the following day (intrusive audience) both with the BPO. Another one from the VPO dates from 1954 (on the Andante label) in execrable sound.

If it's Furtwangler you want in the Bruckner 8, go for the 1944 recording. There is no question, in my opinion, that the circumstances surrounding the date of this recording played a major part in the interpretation that Furtwangler gave us. The Adagio is a lament for a destroyed Germany and its culture every bit as moving as Strauss's Metamorphosen being composed at much the same time. I'll be playing this Bruckner 8 on Friday.

I checked my recording, and yes it's from 1944. My disc was part of a "gift" that our local Classical Station prepares for people who pledge for the fund drive. The documentation is a little sketchy but I found the small print. Of greater import, the sound quality is imo, superb for a recording of such vintage, much better than the Furtwangler Brahms and Beethoven recordings that I have that come from WWII era performances.
The performance is as you describe. I am in awe of your knowledge of Furtwangler's recorded legacy.

[P. G. Tipps]

There are, I think. four extant Furtwangler performances of the Bruckner 8, available on various labels, none of them, alas, in terribly good sound. By far the best, in my view, is the earliest of them, a recording made in the Musikverein with the VPO for the Reichsrundfunk on October 17 1944 (70 years ago this Friday) and I'm guessing that this is the one you mean. It is a blistering performance at white heat with the slightly acid sound actually aiding that impression. The trumpet fanfare at the first movement climax cries into the abyss as no other version does. The recording is worth hearing for that moment alone.

Two other recordings date from March 14 1949 (indifferent sound) and the following day (intrusive audience) both with the BPO. Another one from the VPO dates from 1954 (on the Andante label) in execrable sound.

If it's Furtwangler you want in the Bruckner 8, go for the 1944 recording. There is no question, in my opinion, that the circumstances surrounding the date of this recording played a major part in the interpretation that Furtwangler gave us. The Adagio is a lament for a destroyed Germany and its culture every bit as moving as Strauss's Metamorphosen being composed at much the same time. I'll be playing this Bruckner 8 on Friday.

I have the October 1944 Furtwangler/VPO No 8 as well and agree with your comments about the circumstantial influence of interpretation. Exactly the same applies to his wartime recording of the Fifth with the BPO in October 1942. There is almost an air of fear and even desperation around this music as if the conductor wants to finish as soon as possible in case a bomb hits the concert hall. The calm, slow solemnity one normally associates with Bruckner is entirely absent in both recordings and is replaced by a thrilling energy and excitement. The 1951 VPO recording of the Fifth is quite tame by comparison and therefore supports the impression that wartime circumstances had a significant effect on interpretation.

Despite the relatively poor quality of sound, Furtwangler's wartime Bruckner is quite unique and will surely be a treasured part of any devoted Brucknerian's collection.

[HighlandDougie]

Of greater import, the sound quality is imo, superb for a recording of such vintage, much better than the Furtwangler Brahms and Beethoven recordings that I have that come from WWII era performances.
The performance is as you describe.

I have two copies: that in the DG Originals box devoted to WF and the other (Music and Arts CD 764) which contains a health warning - "These wartime Magnetophon tape recordings by the RRG had flutter, hiss, and peak distortion. This CD is not recommended for listeners primarily interested in good sound; it is aimed at discriminating collectors interested in performance traditions" - which was nice of M&A but is not really necessary. As Richard says, the recording sounds remarkably good, better to my ears in the M&A issue than the DG - there is the occasional bit of tape flutter but it captures the fine acoustic of the Musikverein very well. And the performance!! "Blistering" is the word. All others really do pale by comparison.

[Petrushka]

I have two copies: that in the DG Originals box devoted to WF and the other (Music and Arts CD 764) which contains a health warning - "These wartime Magnetophon tape recordings by the RRG had flutter, hiss, and peak distortion. This CD is not recommended for listeners primarily interested in good sound; it is aimed at discriminating collectors interested in performance traditions" - which was nice of M&A but is not really necessary. As Richard says, the recording sounds remarkably good, better to my ears in the M&A issue than the DG - there is the occasional bit of tape flutter but it captures the fine acoustic of the Musikverein very well. And the performance!! "Blistering" is the word. All others really do pale by comparison.

I also have both of these copies and agree that the Music & Arts issue is to be preferred. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-No-...ngler+bruckner

The sound in either issue is very fine for the period and I'd urge anyone who is intrigued by the comments on this thread to investigate. The version is basically that of Robert Haas but in the words of Hans-Hubert Schönzeler in his sleeve note to the Unicorn LP issue, 'Furtwangler is apt to make minor alterations of his own, such as the addition of a timpani roll in bars 239/240 of the [first] movement which does not form part of any of the existing printed scores of the work. But under his hands these minor deviations become so entirely convincing that any criticism on these grounds would be completely misplaced'.

The Unicorn LP was my first ever Bruckner recording, purchased 40 years ago, and I have it with me now as I type.

[richardfinegold]

I have two copies: that in the DG Originals box devoted to WF and the other (Music and Arts CD 764) which contains a health warning - "These wartime Magnetophon tape recordings by the RRG had flutter, hiss, and peak distortion. This CD is not recommended for listeners primarily interested in good sound; it is aimed at discriminating collectors interested in performance traditions" - which was nice of M&A but is not really necessary. As Richard says, the recording sounds remarkably good, better to my ears in the M&A issue than the DG - there is the occasional bit of tape flutter but it captures the fine acoustic of the Musikverein very well. And the performance!! "Blistering" is the word. All others really do pale by comparison.

I really do have a hard time listening to any other recording of the piece (and I have versions by Karajan, Joachim, Horenstein, Tintner, and Wand). I usually find myself yearning for the Furtwangler long before the finale of the others

[Barbirollians]

I don't believe it !

A third copy of Bruckner 8 Bohm ordered from an amazon marketplace seller has got lost in the post . There is obviously someone out there who thinks I should not have this recording !!!

[hafod]

I don't believe it !

A third copy of Bruckner 8 Bohm ordered from an amazon marketplace seller has got lost in the post . There is obviously someone out there who thinks I should not have this recording !!!

You are not alone! I ordered a copy of the Bohm/Bruckner 8th on 5 August from Zoverstocks for £1.38 that failed to arrive. On 23 September I found another marketplace seller (CD Wonder) offering it for 11p. That too was swallowed up in the mail.

[Beef Oven!]

Play this while y'all waiting for a replacement


This music can be used as an accompaniment when kids are helping with stirring the Xmas cake mixture and making a wish!! Bless.

Scarey-bear music - wooooooh!

[Barbirollians]

It seems that there is a coding error on Amazon and if you order the Bohm Bruckner 8 you get Julio Iglesias by mistake !

I am not re-ordering until they have corrected it .

[slarty]

It seems that there is a coding error on Amazon and if you order the Bohm Bruckner 8 you get Julio Iglesias by mistake !

I am not re-ordering until they have corrected it .

Barbs - you can pick it up on Amazon Germany easily enough - you don't need another account. Your Amazon UK works the same.

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000025MOX/ref=s9_simh_gw_p15_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0JVCE37Z9NSEAGX8NX2C&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455353687&pf_rd_i=301128

[Karafan]

You are not alone! I ordered a copy of the Bohm/Bruckner 8th on 5 August from Zoverstocks for £1.38 that failed to arrive. On 23 September I found another marketplace seller (CD Wonder) offering it for 11p. That too was swallowed up in the mail.

"I have *ahem* five secondhand copies available!" he gleefully cried and ended with a cacophonous evil laugh.......!!!!!

[richardfinegold]

I don't believe it !

A third copy of Bruckner 8 Bohm ordered from an amazon marketplace seller has got lost in the post . There is obviously someone out there who thinks I should not have this recording !!!

I ordered a Alan Gilbert/NY Phil Nielsen Symphony/4 via Amazon and got a Shirley Bassey album instead. I wouldn't have minded if it had the theme from Goldfinger on it, but no luck there. I have had a hard time making the vendor replace it, as they do not want to reimburse me for the two shipping charges. I must have ordered 30 discs from this vendor via Amazon but they don't seem to care, so I guess I am striking the vendor from my list and will continue to listen to the Gilbert recording via Spotify, which actually sounds rather good when played on my main system.

[richardfinegold]

I had bought the 20 CD "Haitink-The Phillips Years" from Zoverstocks. It took a month to arrive but at least it wasn't Shirley Bassey. There is a really good Amsterdam 8th from 1969 in this set.