BaL 9.04.11 - Beethoven: Violin Concerto

[LeMartinPecheur]

Interesting thought EA, but I'm not yet into downloads: I still value a lump of plastic - and proper notes - in the hand. Can you suggest where to start looking?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I fel much the same about downloads, but it is a useful source of timings. You could go to the Amazon website and search for downloads of Beethoven's Violin Concerto.

Talking of "proper notes" one of the disadvantages of cheap multi-CD box sets is a lack of useful notes. Recently, I bought all 4 Decca Britten Conducts Britten boxes, but had to do without the opera libretti.

[visualnickmos]

Good evening Eine Alp....

I agree with you 100% - the worst BaL I've ever heard as well. What a waste of good broadcasting time, by questions then being answered, to say nothing of Mr Goodman doing bits of 'singing' to try and illustrate points. Dreadful. The programme seemed to consist of a mere handful (a small one at that) of recent recordings, that were analysed beyond boredom. It is like getting a high-performance Aston Martin, and then doing nothing more than looking under the bonnet to see how the spark-plugs work. Who the hell cares about that - it's how it goes and feels that counts!
And yes - where were Oistrakh, Schneiderhan, Szeryng et al?.... I had always enjoyed BaL for its informative historical survey of the recordings of the work, that led to a well-balanced final recommendation. If today's BaL was 'Just a Minute' it would have been buzzed constantly for deviation. There was no mention at all about the spirit of the music-making in the performances - just text book almost-jargon. Yawn, yawn.... And as for any continuity - well, that was totally lacking.
I'm now going to listen to Kogan in his wonderful performance with Constanit Silvestri. True bliss!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

You have a way with words, Visualnickmos. I particularly like the Aston Martin analogy, for that sums up the programme. I was criticised for referring to the constant "prattle", but I stand by that statement. It demonstrated academic sterility at its most unmusical.

[visualnickmos]

Thank you. And I think 'prattle' is absolutely the right word - I also like your phrase 'academic sterility' - wonderful stuff! Let's hope BaL resumes normal service soon...

[johnb]

Just a couple of points.

I am a fan of AM but in this instance his role appeared to be limited to asking pre-arranged questions. He added little or nothing to the discussion. I can see how this makes it easier for the person doing the review (he or she doesn't have to rely on a script quite as much) but if this format continues it can only be a success if there is a dialogue between two knowledgeable people.

The other thing is that I found the realisation, for violin and timps, of Beethoven's own cadenza rather odd. I had the impression that a cadenza was supposed to be improvised or something crafted to be a pseudo improvisation. In that case how in God's heaven can it have a part for timps?

In general I get irritated by the sniping at BAL that sometimes happens but I confess that this week was extremely disappointing - the extremely limited selection, the concentration on HIPP and the two-hander format (where one of the 'hands' was redundant).

[ardcarp]

to say nothing of Mr Goodman doing bits of 'singing' to try and illustrate points. Dreadful

No it wasn't! Singing is often a very good way to make a point about phrasing. If you're a conductor standing at a podium you have no instrument, apart from your voice, to show what you are aiming for. Singing a short phrase is often quicker and more precise than using words.

I didn't like the format, but didn't mind Goodman's light tenor. Maybe AM could join in a duet next time?

[pilamenon]

I didn't mind the singing - it was only a minor illustration of one particular point - nor did I mind the fact that AMcG didn't force his own opinions on us, which is not his remit in this slot, anyway. As for the Aston Martin analogy, that doesn't hold water either, as the extracts were substantial, and varied. We heard a good deal of the concerto. Mr Goodman's personal preferences were clearly argued. He was very enthusiastic about much of what he heard, and it would be interesting to hear just one modern recording which does follow Beethoven's metronome marking for the slow movement. None of what we heard from the guest could reasonably be described as "prattle" or "twaddle".

[PJPJ]

Maybe AM could join in a duet next time?

... He could do the timpani part in the cadenza....

[LeMartinPecheur]

You could go to the Amazon website and search for downloads of Beethoven's Violin Concerto.

Thanks EA. Looks like ones to check out include Heifetz (2 different recordings), Zehetmair, Huberman/Szell, Schneiderhan/ Bohm, all under 21'15".

Also perhaps Oistrakh/ Konwitschny if a timing of 19'00" is to be credited when O's other recordings are closer to 24 mins. Could this be a missed repeat perhaps?

One definitely to be avoided would appear to be Zimmermann/ Tate at 25'18!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Could this be a missed repeat perhaps?

I'm 99% ceratin there's no repeat in the 1st movement of Beethoven's Violin Concerto. In concerto sonata form, the exposition is normally for orchestra only, with a "repeat" which includes the soloist and a key change for the 2nd subject.

But I non't think we should become too "hung up" on timings. I have an LP recording with Kyung Wha Chung, the VPO and Kondrashin, which is beautifully poised, though quite slow.

[mikealdren]

Beware of looking at just the timings, the different lengths of cadenzas can account for this.

Mike

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Good point.
I never considered that.

[Bryn]

Just listened to the programme via the iPlayer. A particularly fine BaL. It seems some people are unhappy unless they can manufacture something to moan about, and that includes baseless carping about the use of particular words and phrases.

As to the second Tetzlaff recording, apart from the single disc version available new at a very reasonable price via the amazon.co.uk marketplace, it is also to be found in the "Beethoven: Complete Masterpieces" 60 CD box, which although now around three times the price it was once available for in HMV, is still a fair bargain via the amazon.co.uk marketplace, and probably elsewhere, too. As it does for Roy Goodman, the Zehetmair/Brüggen remains my first choice, but the Tetzlaff runs a close second.

[PaulT]

I am wondering if the BAL crew are becoming sensitive to the comments on here about Andrew's particpiation in some recent BALs? There was no mention of his involvement in the emailed newsletter I received last Friday and I see no mention on the CDR website for yesterday's programme either.