Claudio Abbado's first Mahler cycle

[Barbirollians]

IIRC, reference has been made (by Richard Morrison in his LSO biography?? Wikipedia?) to LSO players somehow feeling "slighted" because their principal conductor chose not to record Mahler with them but was that ever very likely?

DG's recordings of him and the Chicago SO in the 2nd and 4th were made in the 1970s before he became the LSO's principal conductor in 1979. The Mahler, Vienna and the 20th Century series wasn't until 1985, by which time he had added the 1st in Chicago (recorded around 1981), 3rd in Vienna (recorded in September 1980), 6th in Chicago (February 1980) and the 7th in Chicago (recorded in January 1984). That left the 5th, 8th and 9th. As it seems improbable that DG, even in those cash-rich days, was likely to embark on a second Abbado Mahler cycle, it is possible that they might have used LSO recordings for the remaining symphonies, which were, when eventually released, all of live recordings. Great performances as they undoubtedly were, I'm not sure that the Barbican and its pre-improvement acoustics would have provided us with as much pleasure as the Musikverein in Vienna. Precedent exists in DG using third party live recordings as the BPO 3rd stems from a BBC recording made in the RFH so something may appear in due course of the 1985 performances from an official source.

Abbado's relationship with the LSO was not always an easy one, although I think that even those players who didn't much like him all respected him as a fine musician (if he were still alive, I suspect that Richard Adeney might be seen dancing on Abbado's grave, if Adeney's autobiography is to be believed). Still, it would be good to hear some of those wonderful performances from 1985 again.

Interesting stuff HD . I came to these recordings as they had largely been released cheaply on DG Virtuoso and I have so far loved the 2nd and 4th and been impressed by the 1st and 5th though comparatively they lack warmth.

[Petrushka]

IIRC, reference has been made (by Richard Morrison in his LSO biography?? Wikipedia?) to LSO players somehow feeling "slighted" because their principal conductor chose not to record Mahler with them but was that ever very likely?

DG's recordings of him and the Chicago SO in the 2nd and the Vienna PO in the 4th were made in the 1970s before he became the LSO's principal conductor in 1979. The Mahler, Vienna and the 20th Century series wasn't until 1985, by which time he had added the 1st in Chicago (recorded around 1981), 3rd in Vienna (recorded in September 1980), 6th in Chicago (February 1980) and the 7th in Chicago (recorded in January 1984). That left the 5th, 8th and 9th. As it seems improbable that DG, even in those cash-rich days, was likely to embark on a second Abbado Mahler cycle, it is possible that they might have used LSO recordings for the remaining symphonies, which were, when eventually released, all of live recordings. Great performances as they undoubtedly were, I'm not sure that the Barbican and its pre-improvement acoustics would have provided us with as much pleasure as the Musikverein in Vienna. Precedent exists in DG using third party live recordings as the BPO 3rd stems from a BBC recording made in the RFH so something may appear in due course of the 1985 performances from an official source.

Abbado's relationship with the LSO was not always an easy one, although I think that even those players who didn't much like him all respected him as a fine musician (if he were still alive, I suspect that Richard Adeney might be seen dancing on Abbado's grave, if Adeney's autobiography is to be believed). Still, it would be good to hear some of those wonderful performances from 1985 again.

As I mentioned above, I attended a number LSO/Abbado Mahler concerts in the late 1970s onwards and they were superior to the recordings that came out with the Chicago SO and VPO. BBC broadcasts certainly exist of the 1st, 5th and 6th (this last a shattering 1978 performance) as I was present at them. It might be worth looking at the Radio Times Archive for them. I heard at the time that there was some bad feeling within the LSO that DG and Abbado had chosen to record the Mahler symphonies without any contribution from them so it would be good if BBC recordings eventually see the light of day.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes and there must be film stock somewhere of Abbado's live performance of the Mahler Sixth with the European Community Youth Orchestra from the late seventies: together with a documentary of his rehearsals with them (when the orchestra decided secretly not to play the final devastating chord - Abbado nearly falling over when nothing happened) - including playing in a game of football!


(And also a Brahms' Second with the same orchestra from around the same time?)

[Beef Oven!]

There's an ideal balance between structure and passion, I think - it manages to be tight and yet fiery, and something very special happens in the slow movement.

I had a girlfriend like that (but regarding the slow movement, the memory fades).

[Nick Armstrong]

I had a girlfriend like that (but regarding the slow movement, the memory fades).

[Alison]

As I mentioned above, I attended a number LSO/Abbado Mahler concerts in the late 1970s onwards and they were superior to the recordings that came out with the Chicago SO and VPO. BBC broadcasts certainly exist of the 1st, 5th and 6th (this last a shattering 1978 performance) as I was present at them. It might be worth looking at the Radio Times Archive for them. I heard at the time that there was some bad feeling within the LSO that DG and Abbado had chosen to record the Mahler symphonies without any contribution from them so it would be good if BBC recordings eventually see the light of day.

One date I can give you, Pet, although you probably know it, is that Abbado and LSO performed Mahler 6 on the afternoon of Easter Sunday 1978 at the Festival Hall. My parents were there and I arrived in the world a few weeks later.

That looks like an exceptionally early Easter - Sunday 26 March.

I understand that in those days Mahler concerts were often given more than once so perhaps you were there the Thursday before or after.

[Conchis]

As I mentioned above, I attended a number LSO/Abbado Mahler concerts in the late 1970s onwards and they were superior to the recordings that came out with the Chicago SO and VPO. BBC broadcasts certainly exist of the 1st, 5th and 6th (this last a shattering 1978 performance) as I was present at them. It might be worth looking at the Radio Times Archive for them. I heard at the time that there was some bad feeling within the LSO that DG and Abbado had chosen to record the Mahler symphonies without any contribution from them so it would be good if BBC recordings eventually see the light of day.

I would read the choice of orchestra as being entirely about marketing - the VPO and the CSO (along with the Karajan-led and usually unavailable to other conductors BPO) were the most marketable orchestras in the world at that point (and not that much has changed since). A Mahler cycle would not have been cheap to produce, so there would have been a need to be make it as commercially viable as possible - and that meant collaboration with a 'superstar' orchestra (which LSO is not, and never has been).

[Petrushka]

One date I can give you, Pet, although you probably know it, is that Abbado and LSO performed Mahler 6 on the afternoon of Easter Sunday 1978 at the Festival Hall. My parents were there and I arrived in the world a few weeks later.

That looks like an exceptionally early Easter - Sunday 26 March.

I understand that in those days Mahler concerts were often given more than once so perhaps you were there the Thursday before or after.

I was there on the Thursday before, March 21 1978, Alison. It was the first of many times that I saw Abbado. The Easter Sunday broadcast would be one I'd love to hear again.

Very best wishes for your upcoming 40th

[BBMmk2]

One date I can give you, Pet, although you probably know it, is that Abbado and LSO performed Mahler 6 on the afternoon of Easter Sunday 1978 at the Festival Hall. My parents were there and I arrived in the world a few weeks later.

That looks like an exceptionally early Easter - Sunday 26 March.

I understand that in those days Mahler concerts were often given more than once so perhaps you were there the Thursday before or after.

Wonder if you heard that concert your parents were at? A youngster Alison!