Claudio Abbado's first Mahler cycle

[Barbirollians]

This has gradually been re-released on various DG labels - Virtuoso for 1,4,5,&9 . DG Masters still has No 7 - 2 and 4 are on a twofer and now his Third with Jessye Norman has returned on DG Originals. 6 and 8 are still missing but No 8 is doing service in the set of his later recordings as he did not re-record it.

I have slowly collected these earlier recordings , most of which can be found very cheaply on Amazon and the like . I thought I should start at the beginning and perhaps lulled by my experience of his later Mahler records which strike me as passionate and in some cases very tender - that Lucerne Second for example I was shocked by the vehemence and modernity of his account of the First in Chicago . For someone who was introduced to that symphony by the Columbia Walter it has been a real wake up call . Not a comfortable symphony at all in this reading . Thrilling though and quite marvellously played .

The rest of this cycle as is available now awaits me and I look forward to it greatly . I wonder what other forumites think of the earlier Abbado Mahler records ?

[Petrushka]

I have most, if not all, of Abbado's Mahler recordings starting with his 1965 debut with the VPO at the Salzburg Festival in the Resurrection Symphony once (still?) available on the Frequenz label.

Abbado's first cycle was made while he was chief conductor of the LSO and I saw him many times during that period and always felt it a pity that he didn't record Mahler with them as the concerts were thrilling occasions. Hopefully some of them may appear on CD from broadcast tapes before I shuffle off this mortal coil!

Those LSO concert performances had plenty of 'vehemence and modernity' and I'd agree that this is partly translated into those records made with the Chicago SO and VPO in the late 1970s/early 1980s. I have to say I prefer the Chicago 1 & 5, VPO 4 & 9 over the remakes with the BPO and even Lucerne. The Chicago 7 is also very fine but the BPO and Lucerne ones are as well. The Chicago 2 is let down by limited sonics at the end, the VPO remake isn't entirely satisfactory either but Lucerne is in a class of its own.

The VPO 3 was the only one that left me dissatisfied. The posthorn solo is way too distant and timps are held in check at the very end which diminishes the impact of the whole. Others (notably BPO/Haitink) are to be preferred.

All my view, of course.

[richardfinegold]

I have most, if not all, of Abbado's Mahler recordings starting with his 1965 debut with the VPO at the Salzburg Festival in the Resurrection Symphony once (still?) available on the Frequenz label.

Abbado's first cycle was made while he was chief conductor of the LSO and I saw him many times during that period and always felt it a pity that he didn't record Mahler with them as the concerts were thrilling occasions. Hopefully some of them may appear on CD from broadcast tapes before I shuffle off this mortal coil!

Those LSO concert performances had plenty of 'vehemence and modernity' and I'd agree that this is partly translated into those records made with the Chicago SO and VPO in the late 1970s/early 1980s. I have to say I prefer the Chicago 1 & 5, VPO 4 & 9 over the remakes with the BPO and even Lucerne. The Chicago 7 is also very fine but the BPO and Lucerne ones are as well. The Chicago 2 is let down by limited sonics at the end, the VPO remake isn't entirely satisfactory either but Lucerne is in a class of its own.

The VPO 3 was the only one that left me dissatisfied. The posthorn solo is way too distant and timps are held in check at the very end which diminishes the impact of the whole. Others (notably BPO/Haitink) are to be preferred.

All my view, of course.

I've long onwed and loved the Chicago Resurrection. Was that his first recording of the piece? I had somewhat less affection for the Chicago 7th, especially when compared to the great Lucerne recording, but it is pretty good on it's own terms.

[mathias broucek]

You've prompted me to order a Zoverstocks 2nd hand copy of the Chicago 2nd

I was blown-away by this on LP (borrowed many times from the library!). When I bought the VPO one (in his multi-orchestra cycle) I was very dissapointed. Lucerne is good in a different way but there's something ennervatingly special about early Abbado from his LSO period.

[Petrushka]

I've long onwed and loved the Chicago Resurrection. Was that his first recording of the piece? I had somewhat less affection for the Chicago 7th, especially when compared to the great Lucerne recording, but it is pretty good on it's own terms.

The Chicago Resurrection is indeed very fine (I haven't played it in ages) and was, as far as I know, Abbado's first commercial recording of the work. However, as I mentioned above, there is a broadcast recording in circulation of his Salzburg Festival debut in 1965 in the Resurrection with the Vienna Philharmonic. Not state of the art sound, needless to say, but not bad all the same and well worth acquiring for Abbado completists,

It's here for those with deep pockets http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-No-...bbado+mahler+2

[Petrushka]

... there's something ennervatingly special about early Abbado from his LSO period.

[Barbirollians]

I thought enervating meant lacking in vitality - or perhaps MB feels enervated after it as it is an emotionally draining experience ? Normally oe would use enervating as a criticism .

[cloughie]

You've prompted me to order a Zoverstocks 2nd hand copy of the Chicago 2nd

I was blown-away by this on LP (borrowed many times from the library!). When I bought the VPO one (in his multi-orchestra cycle) I was very dissapointed. Lucerne is good in a different way but there's something ennervatingly special about early Abbado from his LSO period.

His 2, 3 and 4 were for a long time my first choices and his No4 I remember had a very slow 3rd movement which some critics at the time did not like. Interesting that he never chose the LSO for studio recordings of Mahler. His no2 had the fire of Bruno Walter and very different to the Rattle reappraisal with CBSO which took in the wisdom of interpreters who knew Mahler - In Abbado's LFO version maybe looked at these and changed his approach not a little!

[BBMmk2]

Would I get a shock with these recordings?

[Petrushka]

I thought enervating meant lacking in vitality - or perhaps MB feels enervated after it as it is an emotionally draining experience ? Normally oe would use enervating as a criticism .

You are, of course, right. I ought to read posts properly before replying in a hurry!

[richardfinegold]

The Chicago Resurrection is indeed very fine (I haven't played it in ages) and was, as far as I know, Abbado's first commercial recording of the work. However, as I mentioned above, there is a broadcast recording in circulation of his Salzburg Festival debut in 1965 in the Resurrection with the Vienna Philharmonic. Not state of the art sound, needless to say, but not bad all the same and well worth acquiring for Abbado completists,

It's here for those with deep pockets http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinfonie-No-...bbado+mahler+2

I haven't played it in a while either, although I've played the Lucerne recording, which I have on Blu Ray, many times. I remember that when the Chicago recording was released on lp, the off stage band was inaudible on most people's systems because of the way the lps had been mastered by DG, and many record reveiwers commented on that. One of my freinds had gotten a job selling high end audio equipment right out of college and used that lp to show me the difference between a uber expensive system
and what I could afford at the time. I never bought the lps but when the CDs came out was interested to learn that that particular passage was clearly audible on my still relatively modest equipment. I will have to listen to the Chicago recording again but I am leaving town for a funeral (my father in law, with whom I had a great relationship, just passed) in an hour and it will be a while until I return. (I am tempted to make a tasteless joke about playing the Resurrection Symphony at the wake and hoping for a miracle but had best not...).

[richardfinegold]

Would I get a shock with these recordings?

Please, Bbm, be careful. One time I was listening to music with my ipod and phones while relaxing in a hot bath and the ipod almost fell in the water. That would have been the most electrying recording that I had ever experienced!

[BBMmk2]

Please, Bbm, be careful. One time I was listening to music with my ipod and phones while relaxing in a hot bath and the ipod almost fell in the water. That would have been the most electrying recording that I had ever experienced!

[Alison]

I love the earlier reading of the Sixth in Chicago. Just the right atmosphere and sound world in a deeper reading than Solti achieved with the same orchestra.

[richardfinegold]

I love the earlier reading of the Sixth in Chicago. Just the right atmosphere and sound world in a deeper reading than Solti achieved with the same orchestra.

I haven't heard the Abbado 6 with the CSO. I am not a fan of the Solti 6 either, although the snarling double basses at the start of The Symphony are quite an experience.