Stravinsky Rite & Petrushka Les Siecles/Roth

[Petrushka]

I purchased this disc with very high expectations but am afraid to report that this 'period instrument' recording of the 1913 Rite of Spring left me distinctly underwhelmed. The Petrushka, on the other hand, is very fine indeed and I'll be listening to that often.

The period instruments give both pieces that primitive splendour that modern day flash merchants can't begin to approach but at the same time I found the strings, again and again, lacked sheer heft. The main disappointment, though, came in the Procession of the Sage where the Wagner tubas hardly registered. This is one of the great moments in the Rite but here it goes for nothing. Is there some difference between the 1913 score played here and the standard 1967 version? All in all a disappointment - but the Petrushka is different again.

What are the views of others about this disc?

[Oliver]

Thanks for that; it was on my "to buy" list. I'll wait for other views now.
Are you sure that the problem with the strings isn't one of recording balance? Was the string section that played at the first performance the same size as those of today? and would it not have been using gut strings with limited vibrato?
And, finally, is any of the above relevant?

[Pabmusic]

I'm quite bowled over. Of course it sounds different, and in several places the dynamics have been altered to reflect the 1913 score (presumably Stravinsky later altered them because he was dissatisfied with the balance). That doesn't detract from a great experience, though - one that reminds us just how difficult it must have been for the combination of music, performers and techniques to evolve into what we expect to hear nowadays.

I wish someone would record the Elgar symphonies with period instruments.

[verismissimo]

I wish someone would record the Elgar symphonies with period instruments.

Think that would be Elgar, Pabs!

[Pabmusic]

Think that would be Elgar, Pabs!

Indeed so. Wouldn't it be interesting if we could convert old 78 rpm recordings into modern sound? I suppose it might be possible in principle, bot oh! so difficult.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Think that would be Elgar, Pabs!

Not really - twenty years or so after they were written: even Stravinsky's own first recording of Le Sacre dates from sixteen years (and a World War) after it was premiered.

[kea]

I think most "traditional" recordings of the Rite rather overplay the strings, so think they're perfect here, but yes, those Wagner Tubas are a disgrace. Richard Strauss would have been furious.

That's the only big lapse in what is otherwise, IMO, a highly recommendable performance.

[PJPJ]

Indeed so. Wouldn't it be interesting if we could convert old 78 rpm recordings into modern sound? I suppose it might be possible in principle, bot oh! so difficult.

Zenph Gould Goldberg

Zenph Art Tatum

[Pabmusic]

Zenph Gould Goldberg

Zenph Art Tatum

Well…

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've heard that Glenn Gould remastering: astonishingly rich and powerful, with no "downsides" to the sound - well, except that it makes my old CBS Masterworks CD (that I've treasured this quarter century) sound tinny and hissy.

[mathias broucek]

The Rite was compromised for me for a while because I grew up with Leinsdorf on Decca Phase 4 which has some very odd balance - enjoyable but not exactly a natural concert hall perspective

[PJPJ]

I've heard that Glenn Gould remastering: astonishingly rich and powerful, with no "downsides" to the sound - well, except that it makes my old CBS Masterworks CD (that I've treasured this quarter century) sound tinny and hissy.

I have the Tatum, and the Naxos Jazz issue of some of the same works. The results from Zenph are extraordinarily faithful yet do not make the Naxos version redundant (for me).

As far as Elgar is concerned it's a shame the New Queen's Hall Orchestra's own label hasn't released at least of the symphonies. Then again, Elgar's own recordings still sound impressive for their time.

I must listen to Les Siecles' prom again; first time round I thought the RAH didn't help.

[Flosshilde]

I've heard that Glenn Gould remastering: astonishingly rich and powerful, with no "downsides" to the sound - well, except that it makes my old CBS Masterworks CD (that I've treasured this quarter century) sound tinny and hissy.

Are you sure that's not GG humming along?

[Tony Halstead]

I think most "traditional" recordings of the Rite rather overplay the strings, so think they're perfect here, but yes, those Wagner Tubas are a disgrace. Richard Strauss would have been furious.

That's the only big lapse in what is otherwise, IMO, a highly recommendable performance.

Maybe the Wagner Tubas are failing to make an impact because they are playing an octave too low...? ( Sorry, I haven't heard the recording in question)
Even to this day there is no definitive solution to the 'alto' or 'basso' question since Stravinsky, apparently, kept changing his mind.
The only commercial recording of the 'Rite' that I ever took part in was the Bernstein/ LSO one in about 1972 in which the Wagner Tubas definitely played 'in alto'

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Are you sure that's not GG humming along?

- No: definitely a permanent hiss rather than a series of groans (and absent from the Zenph).