Mozart Fantasy In C Minor K.475

[richardfinegold]

One of the joys of record collecting is that we tend to acquire multiple versions of a piece without intending to do so. Another joy is that one is reorganizing, or in my case, digitalizing their collection, we come across pieces that re stir our interest.
I don't think that I ever intentionally purchased the Mozart Fantasia, but it tends to be found on various recital discs that I have collected. When I was digitalizing the Phillips "Great Pianists of the Century" collection I discovered that I had a few different peromances contained theirin. The one that I have been playing repetitively is Claudio Arrau. Although I have a lot of Arrau recordings, I didn't realize that I had any of his Mozart until now. I've been comparing the Arrau with versions by Youri Egorov and Christoph Eschenbach.
This is a fascinating piece, almost a sort of one act Opera Mini Drama. The different Pianists sound like different types of Singers. Egorov could be Maria Callas, filled with Pathos and high drama. Eschenbach sculpts the contrasts in the piece, delineating the sequences which comprise the whole. Arrau strikes me more as a Bel Canto singer, with a graceful legato that seamlessly ties together the lyricism and the drama without devolving into hysteria. Arrau also makes me think of Beethoven's G Minor Fantasy, Op. 77, when I hear the Mozart.
I've always liked this piece, but now I am somewhat smitten with it. What a great work.

[french frank]

What a great work.

It's among my favourite shorter works. There seems to be a whole dramatic dialogue going on. I only have two versions, both slightly, erm,'left-field' :-) I first heard it on In Tune, back in the days when. I missed the details and emailed in to ask. Details were duly supplied and it was Andreas Haefliger and I tracked down a secondhand copy via Amazon (from the US!). The other is Schiff playing Mozart's own fortepiano. The Haefliger is my favourite because, fantasia-like, you could think it was an improvised composition.

[Roehre]

I think you might even appreciate it more in its context, the Sonata KV457, for which it is meant as first mvt.
KV475+457 is thus one of the most important (and grandest) sonatas Mozart composed, one which most likely inspired Beethoven.

[french frank]

I think you might even appreciate it more in its context, the Sonata KV457, for which it is meant as first mvt.
KV475+457 is thus one of the most important (and grandest) sonatas Mozart composed, one which most likely inspired Beethoven.

Indeed, the Haefliger disc has both (the Schiff doesn't). Yes, I suppose they clock up roughly 30 minutes between the two.

[waldo]

I think you might even appreciate it more in its context, the Sonata KV457, for which it is meant as first mvt.
KV475+457 is thus one of the most important (and grandest) sonatas Mozart composed, one which most likely inspired Beethoven.

Is the fantasia really "meant" as a first movement for the sonata? I've never heard that before.........Is there any evidence for this claim?
(I'm not doubting your expertise. I would just be interested to know how this was established.)

[french frank]

Is the fantasia really "meant" as a first movement for the sonata? I've never heard that before.........Is there any evidence for this claim?
(I'm not doubting your expertise. I would just be interested to know how this was established.)

I'm not sure why Köchel gave them separate catalogue numbers, but in the Dover edition, the intro mentions the edition by Nathan Broder in which he 'paired' K475 and K457 and says that 'Mozart himself approved that order for a first edition' (Artaria, Vienna, 1785).

It also says Broder acknowledged the contributions and recommendations of Alfred Einstein, editor of the 1937 Köchel edition.

[french frank]

However, the Dover edition dates the Fantasia to 20 May 1785 and the Sonata 14 October 1784. So if it was intended as a 'first movement' it looks a bit like a 'second thought'. Nevertheless, Mozart seemed to want the later piece to precede the earlier one.

[EdgeleyRob]

I have a lovely cd of Alicia De Larrocha playing this followed by K457.
I always assumed,as Roehre says,that these two pieces were meant for each other.

[french frank]

I have a lovely cd of Alicia De Larrocha playing this followed by K457.
I always assumed,as Roehre says,that these two pieces were meant for each other.

Also, in a letter of February 1786, Leopold wrote to Nannerl (Anderson translation):

"I really think that Heinrich must have practised extremely hard, for you will be surprised when you hear him play your brother's Fantasia and Sonata, which I sent you ..." These identified as the C minor works. Mozart had sent the sonata to his father the previous month. So it seems they were played together, one after the other.

[waldo]

However, the Dover edition dates the Fantasia to 20 May 1785 and the Sonata 14 October 1784. So if it was intended as a 'first movement' it looks a bit like a 'second thought'. Nevertheless, Mozart seemed to want the later piece to precede the earlier one.

Yes, but publishing them together doesn't necessarily mean that the fantasia was intended to as a "first movement" - i.e. that Mozart wanted them to be performed as one work, or at least in sequence: fantasia immediately followed by sonata. There may have been all kinds of reasons why they were published together. After all, the fantasia had to to be published somewhere, so it might have made sense - given the same key and the shared character - to throw it in with the sonata. An eighteenth century two-for-one offer.

[french frank]

See my following post.

[waldo]

Also, in a letter of February 1786, Leopold wrote to Nannerl (Anderson translation):

"I really think that Heinrich must have practised extremely hard, for you will be surprised when you hear him play your brother's Fantasia and Sonata, which I sent you ..." These identified as the C minor works. Mozart had sent the sonata to his father the previous month. So it seems they were played together, one after the other.

Okay. I accept they were paired in publication, so obviously they would be referred to as the "Fantasy and Sonata in C minor". But that doesn't entail that they were intended to be performed as a single unit. I am not saying they aren't closely associated, but I think - at least judging by my knowledge - that it is going too far to say that the fantasia is the "first movement" of the whole piece. That suggests that Mozart intended or meant for them to be performed together and that a performance of the C minor sonata, without the preceeding fantasia, would be incomplete in some way. It suggest that Mozart, at least at some point prior to publication, conceived of them as a single work of art. And I don't think we know enough to make that claim.

[HighlandDougie]

Another Andreas (Staier) includes them - Kv 475 then Kv 457 - on this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0000DFZC2/?tag=sacdinfocom08-21

He plays a modern copy of a 1785 Walther instrument. Wonderful music - and fine music-making.

[french frank]

that it is going too far to say that the fantasia is the "first movement" of the whole piece. That suggests that Mozart intended or meant for them to be performed together and that a performance of the C minor sonata, without the preceeding fantasia, would be incomplete in some way.

Looking at various other contemporary mentions, I would agree that 'first movement' might be the wrong way to describe it. Perhaps to say the Fantasy was an 'Introduction' to the sonata?

Wiener Zeitung, 26 April 1786

At the art establishment of Artaria Comp ... are newly to be had: ... Mozart, Fantasy and Sonata for the fortepiano, 1fl 30 kr

[waldo]

Looking at various other contemporary mentions, I would agree that 'first movement' might be the wrong way to describe it. Perhaps to say the Fantasy was an 'Introduction' to the sonata?

Wiener Zeitung, 26 April 1786

At the art establishment of Artaria Comp ... are newly to be had: ... Mozart, Fantasy and Sonata for the fortepiano, 1fl 30 kr

Well, maybe. But I still think "introduction" is pushing it. All we know is that they were published together and carried that title: that doesn't mean Mozart intended the fantasia to be an introduction. He might have done, but I think we have to know more about his intentions. After all, all kinds of works were thrown together in publication without there being a link of that sort between them. As I said before, there could have been many reasons why the fantasia and sonata were published together, not least because it might have been an attractive offer - especially as C minor was not a particularly common key at that time.