George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra

[Petrushka]

I resisted purchasing any recordings by Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra for many years over concerns about CBS sonics so never bought any LPs and I've only recently bought a few CDs where modern re-mastering techniques have done wonders.

Among the discs I now have are his Beethoven symphonies, Haydn London Symphonies, Mahler 6, Tchaikovsky 5, Dvorak 7,8 and 9 and a Mozart disc. Mention on another thread of an excellent Prokofiev 5 (which I never knew Szell had recorded) make me wonder what else I've been missing. I've never heard the much lauded Mahler 4 for instance.

So which Szell/Cleveland Orchestra CDs should I be looking for?

[Dave2002]

There's quite a list of Cleveland recordings at this wiki site - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevela...ra_discography

If you've found the sound better on some of the remastered recordings you may want to check to see if there are any remasterings of some of the following:

Schumann Symphonies 1-4
Brahms Symphonies 1-4
Haydn Symphonies - a selection from around 93 upwards
Mahler 4 and 6 - 4 is outstanding.

Beethoven piano concertos with Fleisher.

Schubert 8 and 9.

There are some others, which look interesting, but I can't vouch for how well they'll come out.

I think also there were some for Decca, maybe Tchaikovsky 4.

[EdgeleyRob]

I've always been very fond of this set.



Absolutely superb 2 & 3,sound not the best in No 1 & 4,but a wonderful set IMVHO.
In fact this and Karajan (70s)are the only complete sets I have

[Petrushka]

One wonders if there is material here for one of those Sony boxes. Surprised it hasn't happened already.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Did Szell ever make a poor recording? Yes to everything mentioned so far, together with his Wagner and Strauss discs (Strauss was an enthusiast of Szell early in his career) and the Walton recordings, too. Availability seems very limited - what on earth are SONY thinking?

[Petrushka]

Did Szell ever make a poor recording? Yes to everything mentioned so far, together with his Wagner and Strauss discs (Strauss was an enthusiast of Szell early in his career) and the Walton recordings, too. Availability seems very limited - what on earth are SONY thinking?

Looking through the lists on Amazon everything seems rather expensive and, as you say, of limited availability. It could be worth staying my hand in anticipation of the appearance of a Sony box.

[jayne lee wilson]

Very famous in its day, often overlooked, the brilliant Walton coupling of Symphony No.2 and the Hindemith Variations...

Szell was a great Mozartian - his Posthorn Serenade is an all-time classic; also the later Piano Concertos with Casadesus, K.364 with Druian/Skernick (Cleveland principals)... his Haydn is great of its kind - I find some of it just a little hefty now, well, more than a little... same goes for the Schumann.

Some years ago his earlier mono recordings (similar rep.) were issued on Urania and reviewed very well - but I didn't invest... pretty sure they'd be worth the effort if you found them.

Some of the best sounding: Brahms Piano Concertos with Fleisher on Masterworks Heritage (1997); the Early London Symphonies (Sony, 2009). And yes, that Prokofiev 5th again on Sony Heritage (albeit still with very tame tamtams and drums). Bear in mind though that Szell adds extra trumpet parts/doublings in the finale, including a scale in the very last bar; and, more seriously, makes a cut in the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra c/w the Prok 5 - that echt-Bartokian night music just before the coda. Yep, ALL of it. (Bars 426 - 555 according to the notes). Mind you - just listening back - Szell is rather prosaic in this finale anyway. Alright, just a bit dull really.

But the recordings sound so fresh for their age (1959, 1965) it doesn't matter one bit! does it?

[richardfinegold]

Strauss Tone Poems
Schumann Symphonies
Mahler 4
Mozart Symphonies
Mozart Piano Concertos with Casdesus--thois is a must
Dvortak Slavonic Dances--another must

[Dave2002]

Very famous in its day, often overlooked, the brilliant Walton coupling of Symphony No.2 and the Hindemith Variations...

Wan't that one actually made in the UK, and issued by EMI on the Columbia (UK) label? http://classicrecords.co.uk/product/...and-orchestra/ SAX 2576 Actually it does seem to have been made in the US - (Hindemith: Recording: Severance Hall, Cleveland, October 10, 1964)(Walton: Recording: Severance Hall, Cleveland, February 24 & March 3, 1961) I didn't realise that EMI UK had links with US recording companies at that time. Details from here - http://www.goodwinshighend.com/music...0Box%20Set.htm

There were some Szell recordings for Decca, though with the LSO - such as Brahms Piano Concerto 1 with Clifford Curzon.

There are more recordings with Curzon and the Vienna PO - Mozart piano concertos 23, 27 and I think another 2 which I can't track down immediately. Decca - very good these.

With the Cleveland Rudolf Serkin plays in Mozart 19 and 20.

Most of Szell's Mozart recordings with famous pianists such as Fleisher and Casadesus (very good in 24 though with the Columbia SO - probably members of the Cleveland SO - recording might be somewhat challenged, but who cares? There might be remastered copies, but where?) are very well worth looking out. Could try this set - http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Casades.../dp/B004H6P2KQ

I realised only a few days ago when I checked the details that one of my first LPs was conducted by Szell with the Cleveland SO.
I think it was probably mono only, but very good - Tchaikovsky Capriccio Italien and Rimsky Capriccio Espagnol. I enjoyed that a lot - not sure if there ever was a stereo version.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Very famous in its day, often overlooked, the brilliant Walton coupling of Symphony No.2 and the Hindemith Variations...

Indeed, but not, of course, on this Forum - as #5 demonstrates.

(It was also mentioned a couple of times on the Thread devoted to the Gardner Walton release.)

[teamsaint]

Indeed, but not, of course, on this Forum - as #5 demonstrates.

(It was also mentioned a couple of times on the Thread devoted to the Gardner Walton release.)

The CD including Ormandy's Mathis Der Maler is available at a great price used.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hindemith-Walton-Orchestral-Philadelphia-Orch/dp/B000025H7B/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404544644&sr=8-1&keywords=Szell+hindemith

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The CD including Ormandy's Mathis Der Maler is available at a great price used.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hindemith-Wa...zell+hindemith

... and if anybody would like to watch the maestro in action (not with the Cleveland, but a rather good pit band on their day off):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vienna-Philharmonic-DVD-Region-1/dp/B00GMM11PS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1404546786&sr=8-4&keywords=Szell+walton

If you can find Szell's Cleveland studio recording of the Bruckner Third, that's pretty good, too!

(I think Pet's right - SONY must be preparing a Szell box.)

[slarty]

The Schumann symphonies are the best of all. He also recorded Sibelius 2, but with the Concertgebouw in 1964 which is a wonderful performance, right up there with
Barbirolli's RPO rendering.

[cloughie]

I am sure that a big CO/Szell box is overdue from Sony which will delight some on this board (probably in truth not many) who have little or no Szell on their heaving shelves but it will frustrate the many if a big box appears with those gems they haven't got and are not otherwise available. Such are the joys of CD collecting!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Schumann symphonies are the best of all.

"Best of all" Szell's recordings or "best of all" recordings of these works, slarty? Either way, I don't agree - superb performances as they are, Szell retouches Schumann's orchestrations. Admitedly, these aren't as glaring as Mahler's, but Schumann's orchestral Music is best served by Schumann's orchestrations.