Help with VW Tallis Fantasia

[Op. XXXIX]

Good folks here, I don't get it.

I love the music of Vaughan Williams, particularly the choral works. The piano concerto (in either version) excites me, the 2nd, 5th, 6th and 8th symphonies speak powerfully to me, I even love the Hodie. Oh and the Mystical Songs too...

But the Tallis Fantasia? Try as I might, it just doesn't work for me. I have the Barbirolli recording -considered the best in some quarters?- but Elgar's Introduction & Allegro always makes mincemeat of VW's rather soupy and flaccid writing for strings.

Sure, I know the story of Howells walking the streets in awe after he heard this piece- and no doubt needing a breath of fresh air after the stench Gerontius. (His opinion of the Elgar not endorsed here.)

I realize some music works for us, some doesn't. Just curious what your thoughts are.

[MickyD]

Good folks here, I don't get it.

I love the music of Vaughan Williams, particularly the choral works. The piano concerto (in either version) excites me, the 2nd, 5th, 6th and 8th symphonies speak powerfully to me, I even love the Hodie. Oh and the Mystical Songs too...

But the Tallis Fantasia? Try as I might, it just doesn't work for me. I have the Barbirolli recording -considered the best in some quarters?- but Elgar's Introduction & Allegro always makes mincemeat of VW's rather soupy and flaccid writing for strings.


Sure, I know the story of Howells walking the streets in awe after he heard this piece- and no doubt needing a breath of fresh air after the stench Gerontius. (His opinion of the Elgar not endorsed here.)

I realize some music works for us, some doesn't. Just curious what your thoughts are.

Of course there is no pretending that a much-lauded piece touches you if it doesn't. Personally I find the Tallis Fantasia one of the most heart-rending and beautiful pieces that RVW ever wrote. The strange thing about it is that the work makes me "nostalgic" for a vanished idyllic image of England - I wish I could explain myself, because I am certainly not old enough to have nostalgia for that!

[rauschwerk]

That's the first time I have ever heard the phrase "soupy and flaccid" applied to RVW's string writing. I think he (a string player himself) was a master in this field, and I agree with those who think Barbirolli's recording (he was also a string player) the finest of all. You could try a recording made by a smaller band (eg London Chamber orch/Warren-Green) but in reality I can't think what to say to recommend this piece to one who has evidently listened carefully and still doesn't like it.

[Norfolk Born]

Of course there is no pretending that a much-lauded piece touches you if it doesn't. Personally I find the Tallis Fantasia one of the most heart-rending and beautiful pieces that RVW ever wrote. The strange thing about it is that the work makes me "nostalgic" for a vanished idyllic image of England

That's EXACTLY how I feel about it. And I don't think there's any point in trying to make it, or any other piece, 'work' for you. As they say: 'Other fine compositions are available'.

[nersner]

Of course there is no pretending that a much-lauded piece touches you if it doesn't. Personally I find the Tallis Fantasia one of the most heart-rending and beautiful pieces that RVW ever wrote. The strange thing about it is that the work makes me "nostalgic" for a vanished idyllic image of England - I wish I could explain myself, because I am certainly not old enough to have nostalgia for that!

I always think of the Antarctic - cold, austere, desolate & haunted with sadness - quite heartbreaking. On first hearing this I thought it would be by Britten, but my listening is unhindered by any education or intelligence!

[barber olly]

Good folks here, I don't get it.

I love the music of Vaughan Williams, particularly the choral works....
But the Tallis Fantasia? Try as I might, it just doesn't work for me....
I realize some music works for us, some doesn't. Just curious what your thoughts are.

Perfectly normal - it's the Marmite Syndrome
I love the music of Ravel but not Bolero ....
I love the Beethoven Choral Movts 1 2 and 3 but not the finale ....
I love the music of Sibelius but I've gone off the Violin Concerto ....
It doesn't have to be rational, the music may be perfectly formed but ....

[Ferretfancy]

All nations have "Cities on a hill", and I think that for many of us this is expressed in a vision of a past which perhaps never quite was, images of folk customs, great dark churches, echoing music. I went to a school in a nineteenth century building that like so many others paid a tribute to the Tudor period in its architecture, and we sang the music of Tallis and Byrd.
Vaughan Williams managed to tap into this deep vein which runs through English life by writing what is surely one of the greatest of all works for strings.
I've often wondered whether it might be possible to perform the Fantasia with the two string groups and a consort of viols replacing the string quartet.

[BBMmk2]

How is it that string music can touch people where other combinations cannot. this is coming from a brass player too! Although, having said that pieces like John Ireland's 'A Downland Suite and Holst's 'A Moorside Suiote', does conjur up and England that has past us by.

[Norfolk Born]

How is it that string music can touch people where other combinations cannot.

I've often asked myself, and others, this question but have yet to find with a satifactory, let alone a convincing, answer. Yesterday I attended a concert given by a string orchestra. I enjoyed every item. The featured composers were Mozart, Delius, Haydn, Bartok, Mendelssohn and Elgar, and it was during the last-named's Serenade for Strings that I found myself utterly transported - I know not whither - while still listening intently to what was going on in the church.

[umslopogaas]

Good grief, just looked up the Tallis Fantasia in the 2010 Penguin Guide and they recommend no less than eleven versions! Its all very well being spoiled for choice, but with that many, how on earth do you choose?

It may be worth trying another recording. Barbirolli was a great conductor, for sure, but he could be very individual. I've got two versions by Boult on LP. One is an ancient mono Nixa with the "Philharmonic Promenade Orchestra" (presumably one of the London bands moonlighting). The other is a stereo HMV from 1976 with the LPO. The one I would recommend, though, is the Academy of St Martins in the Field on Argo. Back in the late 1960s and 1970s I bought a lot of ASMF recordings and I still rate them very highly for the precision of their playing and the wonderfully clear sound. Give the ASMF a go, they might change your mind. None of these three feature in the Penguin Guide, incidentally: this seems to be a very popular piece!

[Op. XXXIX]

The strange thing about it is that the work makes me "nostalgic" for a vanished idyllic image of England - I wish I could explain myself, because I am certainly not old enough to have nostalgia for that!

I think I may be in a similar situation. Not many people my age like Elgar as much as I do.

Clearly the VW Tallis is a much revered piece, and I thank everyone for the replies. I won't give up on it.

[Norfolk Born]

Thank YOU for starting such an interesting thread!