Record Store Day

[pastoralguy]

Its an interesting subject, but heading off topic.

Please feel free to head where you want to go.

And thank you to all who have either contributed or read the postings.

[teamsaint]

Please feel free to head where you want to go.

And thank you to all who have either contributed or read the postings.

well the AG led footy diversion went down a storm

Well somewhere to start, with regard to the industry rather than shops, are the questions around what persuades people to buy new or reissued single CDs, or smaller sets.

Do people find added value in Auto rip? what would make you buy from your local store, if you have one? what other added value features do people enjoy?
How do people find out about new releases? (many seem to pass by unnoticed even on this rather specialist board).

Anybody out there with knowledge about the economics of new classical music CD recordings? (I can offer insight into book publishing in similar niche markets , if anybody is interested).

[Don Petter]

Old codgers' corner: I seem to remember you had to pay extra for stereo.

Not as I recall. Certainly all the mainstream LP labels were parallel-priced, as can be confirmed by looking at the Gram Cats of the time.

(It did cost twice as much to listen to them, though. )

[Petrushka]

well the AG led footy diversion went down a storm

Well somewhere to start, with regard to the industry rather than shops, are the questions around what persuades people to buy new or reissued single CDs, or smaller sets.

Do people find added value in Auto rip? what would make you buy from your local store, if you have one? what other added value features do people enjoy?
How do people find out about new releases? (many seem to pass by unnoticed even on this rather specialist board).

Anybody out there with knowledge about the economics of new classical music CD recordings? (I can offer insight into book publishing in similar niche markets , if anybody is interested).

I track new releases via Amazon, Presto and MDT websites. At one time, I had to wait for that month's edition of Gramophone to find out what they were and remember all too clearly the frustration of never finding them in the shops for some weeks afterwards. Nowadays, we are given a release date well in advance and, more often than not, if I 'pre-order' a disc it will be with me on the day of release. Now that's what I want! Shops could never do that, the internet can and that's one reason, among others, why record shops have all but gone.

[Ariosto]

Anybody out there with knowledge about the economics of new classical music CD recordings? (I can offer insight into book publishing in similar niche markets , if anybody is interested).

It's very hard to be specific about the economics. Opera and orchestral recording have huge up front costs and rarely make a profit. Chamber music can, if you avoid Abbey Road and other very expensive studios. In fact some can be recorded quite cheaply, but the problem is that you need ways of selling them. On line probably works best. But i would not ever make another CD for someone or myself uless I had a guaranteed market. (Maybe I should make a pop record ! - someone once said that I should forget classical and make a pop/rock CD and make some money).

[teamsaint]

It's very hard to be specific about the economics. Opera and orchestral recording have huge up front costs and rarely make a profit. Chamber music can, if you avoid Abbey Road and other very expensive studios. In fact some can be recorded quite cheaply, but the problem is that you need ways of selling them. On line probably works best. But i would not ever make another CD for someone or myself uless I had a guaranteed market. (Maybe I should make a pop record ! - someone once said that I should forget classical and make a pop/rock CD and make some money).

Fair comment, but specific examples might be usefully indicative.

To give a comparison, we can make a hardback nonfiction book, RRP say £20 and make a profit on a print run n of 1500 copies.This would be a book of decent quality, both content and physical. Well, usually !!!

That might allow a modest advance on royalties, and covers costs including sales, marketing etc.
It wouldn't allow for any paid for marketing, or at least not a great deal.
This model might include a modest allowance for sales of E books, perhaps 100 copies at the same RRP.

[Ferretfancy]

Old codgers' corner: I seem to remember you had to pay extra for stereo.

Sorry, Gurnemanz, not so, your memory must be deceiving you. Mono disappeared remarkably quickly though, the transition from vinyl to CD took a little longer ( if it ever went at all! )

[kea]

I used to find lovely things on LP, kea, (often WRC and NZ composers) at Records Preservation Book and General Trading Palace in Cuba Street, Wellington. Still treasured. Doubtless long gone.

Don't get me wrong, there's lots of NZ music and out of the way stuff here at Marbecks (aucks) but at the prices I mentioned... which I suppose with inflation is actually less than the prices for LPs back then. Still I think I was spoiled by growing up in a university town in America with a secondhand bookshop with a surprisingly large amount of classical stuff (CDs, LPs, cassettes & scores)—still looking for a good secondhand shop here—and then of course the internet with all its 'bargains'... and now Naxos Music Library. With music so widely available nowadays I think the idea of saving up for a desired record has not really entered into the minds of younger people.

I suppose it would be nice to have record store clerks and other knowledgable people to talk to but I doubt I would find any my age. ;)

[kea]

Anybody out there with knowledge about the economics of new classical music CD recordings? (I can offer insight into book publishing in similar niche markets , if anybody is interested).

Vaguely recall the costs of making an orchestral recording as being ~$25,000 to ~$100,000 (USD) depending on whether you were using a proper orchestra with a big name conductor or a cheap eastern european one. Recording itself is rather cheap; most of those costs are the orchestra's salaries and any royalties/licence fees collected by publishers and so on. The CD will then usually retail for $15-20 and, chances are, will start being pirated within a week or two of release. I'm not sure how many actual sales there will be but I doubt it will be enough to recoup the costs of recording.

[Ariosto]

Fair comment, but specific examples might be usefully indicative.

To give a comparison, we can make a hardback nonfiction book, RRP say £20 and make a profit on a print run n of 1500 copies.This would be a book of decent quality, both content and physical. Well, usually !!!

That might allow a modest advance on royalties, and covers costs including sales, marketing etc.
It wouldn't allow for any paid for marketing, or at least not a great deal.
This model might include a modest allowance for sales of E books, perhaps 100 copies at the same RRP.

I can only say that a small run, say 2,000 CD's costs about£1,500 (maybe £2,000 now) and the recording and editing costs could be as low as £1,200 (This would be a small group - duo - trio - quartet) and no payment to the performers. If you sell the CD for £5 you make little profit and you need to sell by having a market. Some musicians sell at their concerts - often only 3-5 copies at a time. Even at the Wigmore Hall artists sell only small amounts - as little as 10 or so CD's. There's no money in it.

I did hear of a band that made an album and sold it at what they thought was an OK price. They actually sold a huge lot of CD's and would have made a million, but unfortunately they mis-priced it and only made a few quid! Even 50p more would have made them a big profit.

[Sir Velo]

But i would not ever make another CD for someone or myself uless I had a guaranteed market. (Maybe I should make a pop record ! - someone once said that I should forget classical and make a pop/rock CD and make some money).

You should post a link here - you'd be guaranteed 1,000 units sold immediately! What was your repertoire? Genuinely interested.

[Ariosto]

You should post a link here - you'd be guaranteed 1,000 units sold immediately! What was your repertoire? Genuinely interested.

Well, this was a recording of the Grieg violin sonatas. I don't know how many were sold in the US but I did not move many here and the CD was made in 2001. (With 2,000 copies) I think we have between 100 and 200 copies here remaining, and I just tend to give the odd copy away. I don't have a website for these musicians anymore so a link is not possible. If I get a chance I will try and post a copy of the CD cover on to a site like photobooth but I won't get a chance for a while.

Thanks for the interest.

[french frank]

I track new releases via Amazon, Presto and MDT websites. At one time, I had to wait for that month's edition of Gramophone to find out what they were and remember all too clearly the frustration of never finding them in the shops for some weeks afterwards. Nowadays, we are given a release date well in advance and, more often than not, if I 'pre-order' a disc it will be with me on the day of release. Now that's what I want! Shops could never do that, the internet can and that's one reason, among others, why record shops have all but gone.

Our local shop told me they sold new releases at a discount price, part of the record companies' marketing offer, because they're quite keen to shift a few copies straight away (possibly with the arrival of the Classical Music Chart - if a CD starts to appear there it has a good chance of doing well).

However, that shop has now gone under (Providence Music) - but, fighting spirit - a new one was opened by a member of their staff. Somehow, Bristol has managed to hang on to one, albeit not the same one ....

[Rolmill]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread (and probably the wrong one at that!), but I will be in Manchester - a city I don't know at all - a week next Saturday and wonder if anyone could recommend a good classical CD shop (with a decent 2nd hand section would be a bonus )?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread (and probably the wrong one at that!), but I will be in Manchester - a city I don't know at all - a week next Saturday and wonder if anyone could recommend a good classical CD shop (with a decent 2nd hand section would be a bonus )?

Forsyth's is a good start (the only such store I know in Manchester). Deyails here (go to "Music" for CDs - the store sells all sorts of Music equipment):

http://www.forsyths.co.uk/music