Shut Your Jaap

[richardfinegold]

Jaap Van Zweden and the Dallas SO new recording of the Mahler Six has been savagely criticized by both The American Record Guide and Fanfare. Both dismissed the recording in a paragraph. ARG focused mainly on the sound saying it was very dim, and blamed the Conductor for the release, because he apparently overruled a much better sounding Concert Performance.
In a previous issue Fanfare savagely attacked a Van Zweden Bruckner 6th.
I've heard van Zweden conduct a couple of times here and found him to be inconsistent. There was a reasonably successful Brahms outing
and a pretty bad evening of Debussy. I have his Brahms Symphony cycle on Brilliant and it's pretty good.
It is pretty unusual for a Conductor to be receiving this level of disapproval. Is van Zweden in over his head, or is he an individualist who tries to do leave his own mark and occasionally misfires?

[amateur51]

Jaap Van Zweeden and the Dallas SO new recording of the Mahler Six has been savagely criticized by both The American Record Guide and Fanfare. Both dismissed the recording in a paragraph. ARG focused mainly on the sound saying it was very dim, and blamed the Conductor for the release, because he apparently overruled a much better sounding Concert Performance.
In a previous issue Fanfare savagely attacked a Van Zweeden Bruckner 6th.
I've heard van Zweeden conduct a couple of times here and found him to be inconsistent. There was a reasonably successful Brahms outing
and a pretty bad evening of Debussy. I have his Brahms Symphony cycle on Brilliant and it's pretty good.
It is pretty unusual for a Conductor to be receiving this level of disapproval. Is van Zweeden in over his head, or is he an individualist who tries to do leave his own mark and occasionally misfires?

His website is www.vanzweden.com (note correct spelling of his surname)

I attended a performance of Mahler symphony no 5 with him and LPO at London's Royal Festival Hall a few years back which was subsequently released as part of LPO's live label. I found the performance to be sectional and not conceived as a whole, rather unsatisfactory - you knew when he was coming to a part that he felt enthused/involved by as the temperature rose by several degrees.

He has a good pedigree and is obviously developing his career - not a conductor to write-off at this stage certainly but one to iisten to on the radio or on Spotify rather than one to lay out your cash for on CD or concert tickets, at the moment, I'd say

[Flosshilde]

He has a good pedigree and is obviously developing his career - not a conductor to write-off at this stage certainly

Perhaps yet another performer who's been pushed into releasing recordings before he's developed a maturity & depth to produce consistently good performances?

[mathias broucek]

Perhaps yet another performer who's been pushed into releasing recordings before he's developed a maturity & depth to produce consistently good performances?

He's 54 so not immature in terms of years.

I heard him conduct Bruckner 4 with the NL PO last year (plus Die Nacht by Diepenbrock). It was a very enjoyable but not at the "world class" level by any means.

[mathias broucek]

Actually, I'm kind of pleased in a way to see a negative pro review.

I know that recording, pressing and orch playing have (on average) moved forward. But these days it seems as if "all must have prized".

For example, if you look at old Penguin Guides (60s, 70s), there are quite a lot of 1* and 2* reviews of records from big name orchestras/conductors/soloists. These days everything is 3*. And I've learned that, when Gramo talks about "occaisional moments of imprecise ensemble" or "tuning is not always immaculate", then one should probably steer clear.

[richardfinegold]

He's 54 so not immature in terms of years.

I heard him conduct Bruckner 4 with the NL PO last year (plus Die Nacht by Diepenbrock). It was a very enjoyable but not at the "world class" level by any means.

54 is not young, but he has not been a Conductor for most of those years, as he started as a Violinist. As we know, many Conductors don't hit their stride until they have reached the age which for many would represent Retirement. So there is hope for him yet. That Brahms cycle shows a lot of potential. Perhaps he can withdraw from the limelight for a spell and re charge his creative juices.

[Petrushka]

He was the leader of the Concertgebouw during Haitink's time there so one would have hoped that some of the great maestro would have rubbed off on to him.

[richardfinegold]

He was the leader of the Concertgebouw during Haitink's time there so one would have hoped that some of the great maestro would have rubbed off on to him.

Not to mention the other prominent guests that led the great Orchestra in the 1970s.

[Tony Halstead]

Not to mention the other prominent guests that led the great Orchestra in the 1970s.

I think Petrushka means 'leader' = 'concertmaster' not 'leader=conductor'.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Perhaps yet another performer who's been pushed into releasing recordings before he's developed a maturity & depth to produce consistently good performances?

Well, except that the negative comments mentioned in the OP don't criticize the performance of the Mahler #6 - just the poor recorded sound of it (with the implication that there was a better-sounding one that could have been used). rfg refers to the Brahms cycle as being "pretty good" (IIRC, Andrew MacGregor used words like "gelatinous" and "glutinous" when he reviewed the "traversal" a couple of years ago on Seedy Review - epithets I found very harsh and not endorsed by the excerpts that were used to illustrate the set: traditional readings in the sturdiest kappelmeister tradition, and very good value for the pennies that were being asked at the time, I thought).

[richardfinegold]

Well, except that the negative comments mentioned in the OP don't criticize the performance of the Mahler #6 - just the poor recorded sound of it (with the implication that there was a better-sounding one that could have been used). rfg refers to the Brahms cycle as being "pretty good" (IIRC, Andrew MacGregor used words like "gelatinous" and "glutinous" when he reviewed the "traversal" a couple of years ago on Seedy Review - epithets I found very harsh and not endorsed by the excerpts that were used to illustrate the set: traditional readings in the sturdiest kappelmeister tradition, and very good value for the pennies that were being asked at the time, I thought).

The Fanfare review was equally scathing about both the sound and the performance of the Mahler 6. I think that your description of the Brahms is pretty accurate. They are well played, sensible, occasionally exciting readings. I've heard other cycles where the "gelatinous" description would be more apropos, although I favor readings that are lighter or more transparent than what van Zweden has to offer. It was a very inexpensive cycle to acquire.

[PJPJ]

He was the leader of the Concertgebouw during Haitink's time ......

... and appointed as such at the age of 19.

[Barbirollians]

Chailly's recent DVD of Mahler 6 appears to have knocked Jaap's recording for six .

[bluestateprommer]

Well, this is a shock to hear, that Jaap is heading out of Dodge (a.k.a. NYC) in 2024:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/arts/music/jaap-van-zweden-new-york-philharmonic.html

Granted, if you've contracted and survived COVID-19, as JvZ has, reorientation of life priorities becomes understandable.