The Classic FM-isation of R3 is almost complete

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes 50's and 60s same experience as you (my grammar school, though, wasn't so socially stratified as your experience). Plus the local excellent gramophone library where I followed up on the music which caught my interest. And by the time I was 15 - 16 I was listening to Radio 3.

Yes - in the 70s, my experiences, too (including the Co-Op blazer and hand stitched badges and name tags); and I listened to Alan Keith, too (but not Semprini or Mantovani). I have no quarrel with CFM - I don't like much of what I've heard of it, so don't listen to it - unlike R3, it seems to know what its audience wants and provides it to their satisfaction. I think it's less a case that "accessible" has become a term of abuse than that the BBC (and others) have abused it themselves. Not just with R3, either - last weekend, there was a BBC4 programme discussing the history of television Science series that the BBC has produced. Both Brian Cox and Alice Roberts (no mean science communicators themselves) bemoaned the fact that they "wouldn't be allowed" to "get away" with the presentation styles of Bronowski or Sagan - let alone the idea of a thirteen-part series. The perceived idea (of BBC management) is that audiences aren't interested/have different attention spans etc etc. That is what I understand "dumbing-down" to mean: the perception by the suits who run broadcasting today that their audiences are thicker than those of thirty or forty years ago. And it is that perception - masked in the name of "accessibility" - to which I object.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Must you continually be so harsh about Mozart?

I think you may be confusing me with dso9mebydo sell.

[Flay]

So programmes we mourn for (or value if they survive in their ravaged,remnant versions) such as Interpretations on Record, Discovering Music (later on The choir) were part or a rich schedule which was authoritative, educative and led to new areas of interest.
Goes without saying it was part of the declared purpose of the BBC and public service broadcasting, which those on these boards see as needing restoration so that it can maintain the purpose and continue to deliver what we received.

Well said, Sparrow!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well said, Sparrow!

Totally agree

(Forgot to mention )

[Penn Igor]

Must admit, in recent years I can find very little to say in praise of R3. Downmarketing- especially of shows such as Breakfast and EC- in both content and presentational style seem to have set the bench-mark for the station.

However, there is a glimmer of hope...maybe. Breakfast, at the weekend, presented by Martin Handley, is certainly a cut above the weekday "product". Sure Mr. Handley could hardly be described as a wilting violet, but, compared with the C B-H and Pet Rock over the top style, I can live with him, if you see what I mean. And the improvement seems to have carried on into the content of the programme..

And then there is Suzy Klein who R3 already have on their books. I recently watched the three part series she did for BBC4, about the18th Century music scene. Excellent. Klein, not only knows her stuff but can communicte it without being patronising. Take note Breakfast.

So, R3, how about moving the likes of Klein and Handley onto weekday Breakfast, and give them a free hand, and see what happens. I am sure there is another slot they can find for Pet Rock and C B-H. The former would surely be ideal for "Strictly". The latter...Antigues Roadshow maybe.

And then there is Essential Classics....Alas I feel this is a lost cause, beyond hope. You would have to say if it was an animal you would take it out and shoot it, wouldn't you.

[teamsaint]

Cant agree about some of that PI.

Suzy Klein is mostly dreadful, evey bit as much part of the presenter led, dumbed down, "treat the audience like half wits and you will surely get a massive audience of half wits"
problems as the others.

I am really fed up of hearing BBC audiences ( and not just R3) being patronised every time I switch the radio on.

[french frank]

This is where even those who are in general agreement about the state of R3 begin to fall out - once individual presenters are mentioned. Impossible though it may be to believe, there are knowledgeable (even distinguished!) listeners who disagree with you ('you' not aimed at anyone in particular, nor referring to any particular presenter or programme, E&OE &c &c &c, Subject to Contract).

[Black Swan]

This is where even those who are in general agreement about the state of R3 begin to fall out - once individual presenters are mentioned. Impossible though it may be to believe, there are knowledgeable (even distinguished!) listeners who disagree with you ('you' not aimed at anyone in particular, nor referring to any particular presenter or programme, E&OE &c &c &c, Subject to Contract).

I totally agree with FF. I also agree about Weekend Breakfast with Martin Handley. However, the other presenters brought in then he is not hosting are another story. I also think there are some very knowledgable presenters who skills are not inline for the new format. Gone are the days of having a knowledgable presenter give you their opinion of a work, whether you agree or not. but I too am tired of hearing all the call in's tweets etc.

[antongould]

This is where even those who are in general agreement about the state of R3 begin to fall out - once individual presenters are mentioned. Impossible though it may be to believe, there are knowledgeable (even distinguished!) listeners who disagree with you ('you' not aimed at anyone in particular, nor referring to any particular presenter or programme, E&OE &c &c &c, Subject to Contract).

.....other than Skellers where everyone agrees.........

[french frank]

.....other than Skellers where everyone agrees.........

What one can do from comments here is form an opinion on how far agreement is from 100% on any favourite/unfavourite...

Hats thrown in the air count as approval!

[HARRIET HAVARD]

This is where even those who are in general agreement about the state of R3 begin to fall out - once individual presenters are mentioned. Impossible though it may be to believe, there are knowledgeable (even distinguished!) listeners who disagree with you ('you' not aimed at anyone in particular, nor referring to any particular presenter or programme, E&OE &c &c &c, Subject to Contract).

I would agree with you 100% regarding presenters FF, except for one thing....The Breakfast presenters referred to obviously have a large input into the musical content of the programme. If it was just a question of presentational style, I think, as annoying as it is, we could live with it. Unfortunately their influence spills over into the content of the show- with consequences that must be obvious to everyone.

With regard to Suzy Klein, I must agree with PennIgor. I too watched her series on 18th Century music, and found it most informative, without feeling I was being patroised.

[teamsaint]

Maybe I should rephrase my comments about SK,who I am sure is capable of good presentation.
her current style though fits into a common pattern, no doubt enouraged from above, amongst daytime R3 presenters.

[french frank]

Maybe I should rephrase my comments about SK,who I am sure is capable of good presentation.
her current style though fits into a common pattern, no doubt enouraged from above, amongst daytime R3 presenters.

And I think that is also a response to HH's - the format of these programmes is naff because that's what the late management demanded and the interim pilots probably adhere to the "Continue doing so until told not to" school.

[cloughie]

Cant agree about some of that PI.

Suzy Klein is mostly dreadful, evey bit as much part of the presenter led, dumbed down, "treat the audience like half wits and you will surely get a massive audience of half wits"
problems as the others.

I am really fed up of hearing BBC audiences ( and not just R3) being patronised every time I switch the radio on.

Maybe a lot of what you say may be true but she has a lovely voice! I guees she'd make a great choir alto/mezzo!

[johnb]

...The Breakfast presenters referred to obviously have a large input into the musical content of the programme...

I do wonder to what extent that is correct. It is probable that the presenters have some input (perhaps somewhat more in the case of Rob Cowan) but, to a large extent, they are "presenters" - front men and women and behind them are production teams who, in all probability, make most of the selections and have the dominant say as to what is played. I suspect that all this "I have chosen this recording of xxxxxx ..." is often just window dressing.