The 'oh no not another thread' thread

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"He would, I suspect, have been a tad disappointed had he survived beyond 1915 ... "

I don't suppose he was much thrilled with the alternative!

[Nick Armstrong]

"He would, I suspect, have been a tad disappointed had he survived beyond 1915 ... "

I don't suppose he was much thrilled with the alternative!

true!

[teamsaint]

the concerto is a bit tasty, Mind.

[vinteuil]

... personally , I am boycotting KD since the last time i encountered her crassness, , or stupidity as I prefer to call it.

... sadly, the list of presenters I find unlistenable-to grows and grows. KD, obviously, but also CBH, RC, SR, and many more initials....

[Nick Armstrong]

the concerto is a bit tasty, Mind.

Agreed. I like the slow movement very much.

[Bryn]

Now I know presenters are there to read out the producers' scripts and for it to appear to be their knowledge speaking - but I suppose what I found shocking was that KD isn't professional enough to pull off the trick with anything approaching conviction (or, for that matter, good taste).[/COLOR]

You know nothing of the sort, sir. The general rule is that presenters research and write their own scripts. Some may, I suppose, restrict their 'research' to the likes of Wikipedia, but that is not the norm, I can assure you. The "it says" surely only implies that Ms. Derham found the reference somewhere or other, but that she did not care to give her source due attribution.

[Quarky]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]

Now I know presenters are there to read out the producers' scripts and for it to appear to be their knowledge speaking - but I suppose what I found shocking was that KD isn't professional enough to pull off the trick with anything approaching conviction (or, for that matter, good taste).

I'm not sure whether to thank you Caliban, for resurrecting my comments, although I agree with your post 100%. My views on Radio 3 have been changing over the years, and some of my posts from a year or two back I now find somewhat embarrassing!

But I think I'm with the majority of message boarders in objecting to the personality cult projected by many presenters. Sarah Mohr Pietsch is an example of a perfectly fine presenter who has spoilt the broth by too much ME ME ME. I just hope Clemency Burton-Hill can pull herself back from the brink!

[doversoul1]

You know nothing of the sort, sir. The general rule is that presenters research and write their own scripts. Some may, I suppose, restrict their 'research' to the likes of Wikipedia, but that is not the norm, I can assure you. The "it says" surely only implies that Ms. Derham found the reference somewhere or other, but that she did not care to give her source due attribution.

I am not so sure, Bryn. The presenters of produced programmes, like Early Music Show or Composer of the Week do research and write their own script (Catherine Bott often said ‘when I was writing this…’) I think the three presenters of Through the Night do, too. But the presenters of recorded concerts are in general, announcers who read prepared script, and as Caliban says, are professional enough to be able to make it ‘appear to be their knowledge speaking’. Penny Gore, Louise Fryer, Fiona Talkington, and Ian Skelly are some of the best (to my mind).

As for ‘it says’, surely any professional would have given the source.

The problem is, Radio3 does not seem to want professional sounding voice these days.

[Bryn]

I am not so sure, Bryn. The presenters of produced programmes, like Early Music Show or Composer of the Week do research and write their own script (Catherine Bott often said ‘when I was writing this…’) I think the three presenters of Through the Night do, too. But the presenters of recorded concerts are in general, announcers who read prepared script, and as Caliban says, are professional enough to be able to make it ‘appear to be their knowledge speaking’. Penny Gore, Louise Fryer, Fiona Talkington, and Ian Skelly are some of the best (to my mind).

As for ‘it says’, surely any professional would have given the source.

The problem is, Radio3 does not seem to want professional sounding voice these days.

I wrote on the basis of discussions with presenters I happen to know socially, and who present both "produced programmes" and "recorded concerts" in addition to live concerts. I will not repeat their tales out of school but will just say that they can be far sharper in their criticism of slapdash 'research' by some of their colleagues, than that found here.

It is of course possible that Ms. Derham has different terms of reference to those of her colleagues, but I doubt it.

[french frank]

It is of course possible that Ms. Derham has different terms of reference to those of her colleagues, but I doubt it.

There is probably a difference, however, between those who are equipped to do research from a position of knowledge, and those who aren't.

[Bryn]

For those who seem to think Ms. Derham somehow incapable of preparing the scripts for her presentational work, I would refer them to the final quoted paragraph in this Telegraph piece from spring last year. Please note, the article deals specifically with her weekend activities. The mention of preparing scripts for Sunday NT concerts in no way precludes her similarly preparing the scripts for her Ao3 presentation. Indeed, the implication to be drawn, I think, is that, like the other Radio 3 presenters, she prepares her own scripts. That, however, says nothing about the quality of such preparation. See also here.

[Word]

There is probably a difference, however, between those who are equipped to do research from a position of knowledge, and those who aren't.

Though the quality of KD's research isn't in question as Caliban clearly thought it was someone else's (and, given his evidently unshakeable views, I suspect there could be no higher praise from Mr. C. ).

[french frank]

Though the quality of KD's research isn't in question as Caliban clearly thought it was someone else's ).

(I've left in the winkeye!) I'm not sure that that is necessarily correct. If the research, for example, goes no further than Wikipedia then that original 'research' may not be particularly sound. I wouldn't suggest, however, that a) presenters should not consult Wikipedia nor that they should delve into the definitive biography of every composer whose work is mentioned. Nevertheless, I would stick to what I originally said: some presenters start from a position of being very knowledgeable and are perhaps looking for the odd confirmation of dates or spelling of a name (on which Wikipedia is usually very reliable); others know nothing and are looking up reference works to find something to say. On the whole, one looks to the background and track record to form some assessment of how reliable what is broadcast might be. One undoubtedtedly knowledgeable presenter once referred to Beethoven's 'Kreisler sonata' which I thought entirely understandable in the context of mentioning, if I remember, that it was to be played on Kreisler's violin. Slightly unfortunate, but well within the bounds of the odd lapse in concentration of which, surely, we are all capable at times?

I thought Caliban's comment, however, was rather different: that this was a slightly arch reference to a not very relevant detail to include if you have only 20 seconds or so to give out information. Colourful, memorable but on the level of history reduced to King Alfred burning the cakes [it says here].

Here endeth

[Quarky]

For those who seem to think Ms. Derham somehow incapable of preparing the scripts for her presentational work, I would refer them to the final quoted paragraph in this Telegraph piece from spring last year. Please note, the article deals specifically with her weekend activities. The mention of preparing scripts for Sunday NT concerts in no way precludes her similarly preparing the scripts for her Ao3 presentation. Indeed, the implication to be drawn, I think, is that, like the other Radio 3 presenters, she prepares her own scripts. That, however, says nothing about the quality of such preparation. See also here.

Clearly, you know a great deal more than me about this subject, but, if KD is being paid £200K by Radio 3, and she clearly has a very busy family life, it would be sensible for her to employ a research assistant to put together a base document, which she might revise to suit her presentation style. I believe other presenters do employ a team, for example Alyn Shipton for JRR.

It doesn't appear much has changed since this thread was started. Certainly I reach for the Off switch as soon as I hear KD's voice. I can't agree with the criticism of Rob Cowan expressed some time ago. But a very good thread, well worth reading again.

[Nick Armstrong]

Though the quality of KD's research isn't in question as Caliban clearly thought it was someone else's (and, given his evidently unshakeable views, I suspect there could be no higher praise from Mr. C. ).

No, I assumed an absence of research on the part of KD - it sounded to me as if she was reading out something that had very recently been put under her nose (per her experience as a newsreader) and adding the odd improvised aside plus giggles