Mahler 8 on Essential Classics, 11/04/13

[Guest]

Listening this morning to that fine performance, I was reminded of my one and only public airing as a singer; I was in the boys' choir for the famous Horenstein/LSO performance fifty years ago, still available on CD.
It triggered a life-long interest in Mahler though, to be honest, at the time we were more interested in the young ladies of the of the Orpington Girls Choir. We were a boys' school.
It was also the only time that a Maestro spoke to me. We had been rehearsing at the Royal Academy and Horenstein was concerned that the boys weren't cutting through the din of a huge orchestra and multiple choirs. I wonder why.
He put his arm on my shoulder as we were leaving for our orange squash and biscuits. "You boys need to eat more porridge," he said.

It was of course Mahler's fault. There were over one hundred of us in the school choir- the chapel choir, the concert choir and anyone who could sing in tune and hadn't reached puberty. I was in that third category.
I now think that Mahler had in mind a horde of street urchins (the cast of Oliver!) rather than sweet-faced choristers.

We were prepared in school by Berthold Goldschmidt , to whom I recall we were rather unkind. Learning later about his struggles as a musician in Nazi Germany and his neglect here in the UK, I felt guilty....I wish I'd been able to say to him all those years ago, "Don't worry, one day, like Mahler, your time will come."

[Nick Armstrong]

Great thoughts and memories, Oliver!! Do you still sing?

An unusual morning meant I heard that extract this morning on EC. I was in the stalls for the performance in question*, and remember it as a tremendous evening, though flawed by some of the soloists (to these ears, at least). Chorally and orchestrally thrilling, I found myself thinking this morning that I couldn't live with this recording because I would dread the appearance of the tenor who sounds to me as if he is being strangled in the act of attempting to combat a severe bout of constipation. On the night, I remember wincing but of course the live experience sweeps one past such glitches. I find it difficult to do so on CD (and indeed as I get older I find I am increasingly reluctant to make allowances for wayward singers). I do have the earlier DVD release of the performance (apparently a pick & mix from the CD performance and the following night's) and watch it for the start and finish... but try to avoid the soloists.

*That's to say the Tennstedt which was on the radio - not the Horenstein in which the youthful Oliver was piping lustily....

[antongould]

Didn't hear it Rumpole/Oliver but did RC say it was his favourite recording?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

An excellent post, Oliver - and welcome to the Forum. Any Horenstein performance was an occasion, and I envy your working with the great man at so formative an age.

Caliban is quite correct - the Rattle Mahler #8 is spoilt by some very wobbly singing (I find some of Rattle's speeds a little too slow, too - but I doubt that this would worry me as much if the singers didn't fill this extra time with even more scoops, swoops and Greystokesque vibrato!)

[Stephen Smith]

I wish I had been there for Tennstedt's performance. Somehow, I didn't know it was on - I can't find the date of the performance. .

I have tried to find the details for an anniversary performance (BBC 50th (1989??) of Mahler's 8th - Colin Davis (another master of this piece) BBCSO of course, RAH. Unfortunately the programme is in storage and inaccessibl.

Julia Varady gave an amazing performance for Davis - by some means she dominated the sound of full orchestra and chorus in the tutti passages. Davis on the podium intervened in my sight line to her - when he moved forward, I heard more (It was immediate, in the moment, I'm not convincing myself). Presumably an acoustic "phenomen". But wonderful.

In the interval in the bar, it was "Well, did you hear Julia Varady" from groups left, right and centre. My friend suggested I look behind me - the nearest female voice I had heard to this effect was .... Dame Eva Turner. Never to be forgotten. I have heard a lot of Mahler 8 performances in the UK. Like many an opera, one attends in the hope its going to be the one in hundred, all out thrilling performance (and Mahler 8 is operatic, surely). But none has been so thrilling as that one, and although, from the recording, Tennstedt was a sure master, I measure all live performances by Davis's interpretation, which was spot on.

I have the Horenstein, which although an old recording, had a nobility about it (must listen again) and a worthy document of an early (the 1st? - probably not) performance in the UK. However, for a recording, I haven't heard better than the Solti - strong team of soloists, great performance.

[amateur51]

I wish I had been there for Tennstedt's performance. Somehow, I didn't know it was on - I can't find the date of the performance. .

I have tried to find the details for an anniversary performance (BBC 50th (1989??) of Mahler's 8th - Colin Davis (another master of this piece) BBCSO of course, RAH. Unfortunately the programme is in storage and inaccessibl.

Julia Varady gave an amazing performance for Davis - by some means she dominated the sound of full orchestra and chorus in the tutti passages. Davis on the podium intervened in my sight line to her - when he moved forward, I heard more (It was immediate, in the moment, I'm not convincing myself). Presumably an acoustic "phenomen". But wonderful.

In the interval in the bar, it was "Well, did you hear Julia Varady" from groups left, right and centre. My friend suggested I look behind me - the nearest female voice I had heard to this effect was .... Dame Eva Turner. Never to be forgotten. I have heard a lot of Mahler 8 performances in the UK. Like many an opera, one attends in the hope its going to be the one in hundred, all out thrilling performance (and Mahler 8 is operatic, surely). But none has been so thrilling as that one, and although, from the recording, Tennstedt was a sure master, I measure all live performances by Davis's interpretation, which was spot on.

I have the Horenstein, which although an old recording, had a nobility about it (must listen again) and a worthy document of an early (the 1st? - probably not) performance in the UK. However, for a recording, I haven't heard better than the Solti - strong team of soloists, great performance.

I can't help with the date Stephen tho if pressed I'd say it was a year or two earlier but I was there too A memorable performance indeed and I remember staggering out afterwards with some chums in need of a drink and a chance to discuss what we'd just heard. Great stuff.

Very sad to see that Sir Colin is still too poorly to conduct the Barbican performance of The Turn of the Screw I wish him all the very best for a full recovery with grateful thanks for many outstanding concerts, not least the one you have so vividly described

[Nick Armstrong]

I have tried to find the details for an anniversary performance (BBC 50th (1989??) of Mahler's 8th - Colin Davis (another master of this piece) BBCSO of course, RAH.

Oh blimey, I was at that too... No idea of the date. It was great!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh blimey, I was at that too... No idea of the date. It was great!

The 50th Anniversary of the BBC was in 1972. There was a Colin Davis-led Mahler #8 with the LSO in the RAH on Sunday, April 21st 1985 - part of the LSO's Mahler, Vienna & the Twentieth Century Festival.

[Petrushka]

I was at the Sunday afternoon, January 27 1991, performance of the Tennstedt Mahler 8 (the one issued on CD) and will never forget it as long as I live. I recall being on cloud 9 for days afterwards.

I was also present at the Colin Davis 1985 RAH performance mentioned by FHG in message 8. I also recall another CD performance in, I think, 1980 but can't remember the date of that one.

[Oliver]

Following my brief flirtation with stardom (see above), I was able to buy in Selfridges a two-LP set of the 8th, conducted by Edward Flipse. It is a dim live recording from the Holland Festival.
I played it endlessly. I remember that the entry of Mater Glorioso before the final chorus was sublime. No subsequent performance I've heard approaches it, not even Solti's, whose Decca version is my favourite.
As for Rattle, he is on record as being dismissive of the work (as indeed is Haitink) and he never seems at ease. The recording quality is poor, too. At the Proms he made the children's choir (a mixed one) cup their hands around their mouths to achieve more volume. I've never seen this done before.

[Northender]

Welcome to The Forum. If memory serves, I attended at least 2 Tennstedt concerts in Croydon. One was preceded by an announcement that Salvatore Accado was indisposed and the Elgar violin concerto would be played by 'the young British violinist Nigel Kennedy'. I have Tennstedt's Mahler set on CD - a safe overall choice, although I could happily live with Solti or Kubelik (but probably not Bernstein).

[Thropplenoggin]

Mahler's 8th 'symphony' (oratorio?) is a work I continue to struggle to like, finding the first half overblown and bombastic, and disliking its central melody, but enjoying the second half, and finding the ending superb. I have streamed countless versions, old and new, but none of them have been able to unify this hate/love dichotomy into only 'love'.

[Stephen Smith]

The 50th Anniversary of the BBC was in 1972. There was a Colin Davis-led Mahler #8 with the LSO ......

I think this is a bit early for the concert I recall (If only I could access my programme - I can't pick up anything on the Internet!) I wonder if it was the 50th anniversary of the charter - 1 January 1927, before which the BBC was a private company. Anyhow, I am sure in my own mind that it was a BBC anniversary - the BBC was entertaining the great, the good and connected in the loggia boxes behind (I have an image of Dennis Healey filling his (wine) glass - don't think the BBC could do that now, in these times of "austerity", and hard working familes who have to pay a licence fee etc etc........)

As to the work, I appreciate it could seem overblown (my mother described it as "that one with the screaming women") but, rather like a lot of opera you either accept it on its own terms and engage with it, or you can't. The 2nd half has such variety of instrumental and vocal sounds, and amazingly, in my view, the whole piece pivots on the Chorus Mysticus "Alles Vergängliche" - the last 5 minutes, going from the softest choral sound to the apocalyptic.

I've had the chance to be in the chorus at RaH for a performance or two but, as in my experience, that can feel like singing in a telephone box - I decided I'd rather be in the audience. One final memory (passing over the nightmare of Lorin Maazel's rendition) - the Royal Music Colleges/Academies gave a performance (another anniversary, again I don't have the details). With the chorus formed from music students, the clarity and diction was the best I have ever heard in RaH (and probably the best in a large choral piece).

[Oliver]

I now have mixed feelings about the 8th, despite the overwhelming impact it had on me as a twelve year-old.
I find the instrumental prelude to the quiet rendition of the Chorus Mysticus the most rewarding part of the symphony. As Deryck Cooke points out in the programme (which, naturally, I still have), the instrumental sonorities are remarkable- harmonium, piano, harp, piccolo, E flat clarinet. The passage depicts Faust's redemption.
Beautiful.

[amateur51]

The 50th Anniversary of the BBC was in 1972. There was a Colin Davis-led Mahler #8 with the LSO in the RAH on Sunday, April 21st 1985 - part of the LSO's Mahler, Vienna & the Twentieth Century Festival.

I reckon that was the one I attended - many thanks ferney