Really Petroc!

[Dave2002]

Perhaps the suggestion that the TV/film sets to be offered for sale in Wimbledon might be used to make a programme about an until recently high profile politician on this morning's Breakfast programme was just a tad unkind.

[Nick Armstrong]

The meaning of that post and PT's alleged comment is wholly obscure to me!

[Dave2002]

Suffice to say that one of the items was a set for the inside of a prison.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I think the reference is to PT telling us that there were three large film-sets for sale somewhere in the UK, including a large prison set, then commenting that it'd be ideal for a Life and Times of Chris Huhne.

[Flosshilde]

Mind you, I think Petroc's expriences re prison were probably rather more frightening than Huhne's will be.

[Dave2002]

Mind you, I think Petroc's expriences re prison were probably rather more frightening than Huhne's will be.

Possibly, though didn't last as long. I suspect most of us don't know how to deal with people who are sent to prison, if indeed we know any. My guess is that such people will have some friends who will stick by them, but some will drop off. What happens to people who are merely acquaintances I'm not sure. We had someone who worked for us, whom we discovered had been incarcerated. I don't suppose it's likely we'll meet him again, or offer him work. Before that, although his work was variable, it was mostly satisfactory, and we did actually rather like him. He always told us how honest he was!

Also, in the UK, it's hard to find out if people are in prison, which is probably a good thing, though people could disappear. The situation is different in the USA, where it seems to be possible to find the names of all the prisoners in each US jail. If you try to find out about the names of people in UK jails, big brother wants to know why you need the information, which is probably fair enough. In the US the availability of information about prisoners has had some nasty consequences, such as the existence of websites which publicise details of previous offenders. Sometimes they write to the previous offender, who may by then be at least an accepted member of society with a reasonable reputation, and threaten to "out" them if they don't pay a fee - say $500 - to not have their details put on the web site. Very dubious and unpleasant.

[Pabmusic]

...Also, in the UK, it's hard to find out if people are in prison, which is probably a good thing, though people could disappear...

The philosophy is that the trial is in public, so 'the world' knows that X has been convicted. And that's it. Everything that follows is private. It is sometimes mentioned that a particular person is held in a particular prison, but that is usually only in notorious or celebrity cases, and it doesn't come from the Prison Service - it's usually a relative or friend (or even a rogue Prison Officer) who has told the media. In such circumstances, the prison would not deny it if a direct question were asked.

[kernelbogey]

Possibly, though didn't last as long. I suspect most of us don't know how to deal with people who are sent to prison, if indeed we know any. [...]

I once visited someone in prison. I was appalled by the experience. I was made to stand in a line while I and all the other visitors were sniffed by dogs. We met in a 'cafe' where all the prisoners wore hi-Viz vests.

On his release - it was a relatively short sentence - the ex-prisoner wrote a long letter to the governor listing the many ways in which he felt he had been unnecessarily humiliated. He received no reply

[Flosshilde]

Possibly, though didn't last as long.

6 days in a Zimbabwean prison (& not knowing if it will become 10 years) or 6 weeks in Wandsworth, with a certain move to an open prison? I know which I'd prefer.

[amateur51]

I once visited someone in prison. I was appalled by the experience. I was made to stand in a line while I and all the other visitors were sniffed by dogs. We met in a 'cafe' where all the prisoners wore hi-Viz vests.

On his release - it was a relatively short sentence - the ex-prisoner wrote a long letter to the governor listing the many ways in which he felt he had been unnecessarily humiliated. He received no reply

Perhaps the non-reply was inevitable but still hardly forgivable, kernel. May I suggest that your friend should copy his letter (and mentioning the non-response) to the Chief Inspector of Prisons, Nick Hardwick who is a good bloke
A friend who was in Wandsworth for a shortish sentence some years ago formed a mutually useful relationship with Sir David Ramsbotham when he was HMCIP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Hardwick_%28chairman%29

http://www.justice.gov.uk/about/hmi-prisons

[Dave2002]

6 days in a Zimbabwean prison (& not knowing if it will become 10 years) or 6 weeks in Wandsworth, with a certain move to an open prison? I know which I'd prefer.

You probably have a point there, though I don't fancy either.

[Pabmusic]

I once visited someone in prison. I was appalled by the experience. I was made to stand in a line while I and all the other visitors were sniffed by dogs. We met in a 'cafe' where all the prisoners wore hi-Viz vests.

On his release - it was a relatively short sentence - the ex-prisoner wrote a long letter to the governor listing the many ways in which he felt he had been unnecessarily humiliated. He received no reply

I can't but sympathise. Trouble is, it's a fine balance between having visits in open or closed conditions. The more informal you make visiting, the more you will be taken advantage of. Most drugs come into prison through visits (with the exception of open prisons, where almost any method is easy) - hidden in babies' nappies, a child's bag of sweets and many other things (and places) - hence the drugs dogs. Unconvicted prisoners wear their own clothes and so can walk out with the visitors - hence the high-viz vests (though I once had a prisoner and his mate exchange the vest; the prisoner walked free, leaving his mate sitting there). How could that happen? Not so difficult, unfortunately.

The most reliable way of stopping this is to have a glass partition, but that's not exactly humane.

[Dave2002]

The philosophy is that the trial is in public, so 'the world' knows that X has been convicted. And that's it. Everything that follows is private. It is sometimes mentioned that a particular person is held in a particular prison, but that is usually only in notorious or celebrity cases, and it doesn't come from the Prison Service - it's usually a relative or friend (or even a rogue Prison Officer) who has told the media. In such circumstances, the prison would not deny it if a direct question were asked.

This appears to be a reasonable policy, and protects the privacy of the offender, which is probably a good thing. OTOH there is still the possibility of people disappearing without trace. The American system is more visible, but as mentioned can lead to bad problems later.

[Pabmusic]

...OTOH there is still the possibility of people disappearing without trace...

I can't see how this might happen. In almost all cases, there are family and friends (the prisoner informs someone where they are, of course - or the prison does it for them, if there are difficulties). Then there's the Board of Visitors - the independent watchdog, whose members can (and do) visit at any time, go where they want (unaccompanied) and speak to whom they want.

As a last resort, there's habeas corpus, a writ instructing the Governor to produce a prisoner before the court. I've known it be used, but never because anyone had been lost in the system.

It is not a secretive system, just a confidential one - rather like we have for hospital patients.

[Edit] The more I think of this, the more I realise how unreal the notion is. Receiving a prisoner from court carries with it a huge amount of (national) paperwork and computer entries - as does transferring a prisoner to another prison and (eventually) releasing him or her. It would simply be impossible for someone to disappear without there being a monumental conspiracy between the prison, the Prison Service, the sentencing court, the police force, the CPS and the prisoner's solicitors.

[Dave2002]

In almost all cases, there are family and friends .....

It is not a secretive system, just a confidential one - rather like we have for hospital patients.

In almost all cases ....?

Are prisoners required to have contacts in the outside world? There must be some with no outside family or friends.

It boils down to trust, and in most cases the trust is probably justified - which would not be the case in some other parts of the world. However, many of us do not know much about this,
or what procedures are involved.

Lastly, if I ever see our erstwhile workman in the street, what should I do? Say "Hi"? Walk over to the other side? Laugh about how he ripped off the system? Get angry because he ripped the whole of the tax paying society off? Other?