The Kazoo

[LeMartinPecheur]

Did you know introverts make up less than 30% of the population? That means 70% of the population probably doesn't have the foggiest idea why on earth you find this so bothersome.

Eudaimonia: please cite your evidence! Myers-Briggs surveys of the British population, as indeed of most national populations, generally show something close to a 50-50 split.
Of course, there are introverts and introverts

[Eudaimonia]

Eudaimonia: please cite your evidence! Myers-Briggs surveys of the British population, as indeed of most national populations, generally show something close to a 50-50 split.
Of course, there are introverts and introverts

Well, that's Myers-Briggs for you, but there other instruments. "The Introvert Advantage (How To Thrive In An Extrovert World)" by Martin Olsen Lany claims that studies place the overall worldwide percentage of extroverts at 75%, but among people classed as "intellectually gifted", the sample is skewed as 60% introvert. Something to think about!

I don’t think this is anything to do with the question of whether or not we like the sound of kazoo or comic shows. I am objecting to the way in which the promotion of this charity event is disrupting the programmes. I would have thought a discreet announcement from time to time is enough. Obviously, this is not the view BBC has on R3’s listeners and that is what bothers me the most.

Try to have a little empathy: If you were an extrovert who believes the point of listening to the radio is as casual "background listening", you'd never understand how an introvert listening critically and thoughtfully would view the kazoo as a disruptive intrusion and the aural equivalent of being punched in the face. Seriously. You just wouldn't be temperamentally capable of understanding why it's a problem...you'd hear people complaining, and you'd just laugh it off as a bunch of humorless old elitist fussbudgets finding something new to whinge about.

I think you're right: this approach to Red Nose Day is all about attracting new audiences. If they were interested in doing a RND that was appealing to "us", they might do something more subtle, like a Flanders and Swann tribute concert or something. But no, this is strictly Honkus, Chucklechomp and Captain Conk. And frankly, it just doesn't get any more "not you" than that.

Every time a presenter blows a kazoo or talks to a puppet, the station itself is making a statement-- and that statement is "We're approachable, fun, have a sense of humour, and aren't at all the elitist old fussbudgets you thought we were."

[Suffolkcoastal]

Every time a presenter blows a kazoo or talks to a puppet, the station itself is making a statement-- and that statement is "We're approachable, fun, have a sense of humour, and aren't at all the elitist old fussbudgets you thought we were."[/QUOTE]

Instead we are just trying to become like any other commercial radio station and have lost our identity and integrity!

As for elitism, anyone who only likes one genre of music could be considered elitist whether that may be classical, jazz, world folk, various types of popular music etc etc etc. There are certain radio stations that only tend to concentrate on one or two types of pop music, I would consider these far more elitist than R3 has ever been.

[french frank]

Try to have a little empathy: If you were an extrovert who believes the point of listening to the radio is as casual "background listening", you'd never understand how an introvert listening critically and thoughtfully would view the kazoo as a disruptive intrusion and the aural equivalent of being punched in the face. Seriously. You just wouldn't be temperamentally capable of understanding why it's a problem...you'd hear people complaining, and you'd just laugh it off as a bunch of humorless old elitist fussbudgets finding something new to whinge about.

How can you so spectacularly miss the point? The rest of the BBC radio (music) output is being provided for people who believe that 'the point of listening to the radio is as casual "background listening"': couldn't Radio 3 come up with something a bit more intelligent than that? As I say, I merely pose the question and wouldn't mind getting an answer

As someone else wrote somewhere recently:

"It strikes me – a reasonably average listener without any practical expertise but a desire to learn more about the history of classical music, its developments and transformations – that the ethos of Radio 3, with its mission to offer serious enjoyment, to enlighten and educate, has been increasingly ignored over the past decade. Of course Radio 3 has had to change and be different to attract new, young audiences. But the station would better cater to the intelligent young by becoming more controversial and provocative, more iconoclastic and witty, less conventional. Instead, too often, its tone, beyond the sound of Nightwaves, is of relentless, feel-good jollity – as if it were serving up health food and miracle, weight-reducing programmes, not music. "

Euda - you know you can't convincingly defend your point of view. I don't believe even you are convinced!

[Eudaimonia]

How can you so spectacularly miss the point? The rest of the BBC radio (music) output is being provided for people who believe that 'the point of listening to the radio is as casual "background listening"': couldn't Radio 3 come up with something a bit more intelligent than that?

I'm afraid you missed my point: they could if they wanted to-- but obviously, they don't give a rat's backside about catering to the sensitivities of what they see as a small minority. I don't like it any more than you do, but unfortunately, that appears to be how it is.

All I'm saying is that if you're the type of person who thinks RND is "a bit of good fun", you probably won't mind the way it's being pitched because you're not likely to believe in using the radio for serious listening anyway. Obviously the producers are catering to the casual listener in a casual way; either they don't realise how much it's alienating people, or they don't care. Either way, the sensitive listener is S.O.L. and completely hosed.

Euda - you know you can't convincingly defend your point of view. I don't believe even you are convinced!

I think you're mistaking my explanation for my opinion. As someone who definitely doesn't believe in, say, Mahler as background music and has a strong negative reaction to hearing Wagner on the kazoo--if I remember correctly, I turned red, my jaw clenched, and my palms started to sweat-- I'm convinced that banging on about how much it bothers me to a laid-back extrovert (which alas, I am not!) would make me look like a right nutter.

It's strictly an image-management problem: the more we on this forum go on about how much we despise RND on R3, the more we're going to be written off as humorless, no-fun elitist fussbudgets. I've always found it prudent to keep my elitist fussbudgetry firmly in the closet, but if you all prefer to be "out, loud, and proud", so be it.

[Pianorak]

. . . Every time a presenter blows a kazoo or talks to a puppet, the station itself is making a statement-- and that statement is "We're approachable, fun, have a sense of humour, and aren't at all the elitist old fussbudgets you thought we were."

Don't worry - it can only get worse:

(From BBC Trust Service Review Summary, BBC Radio 3)

. . . We have set out a number of specific actions for BBC management which include:
* looking for ways to make the station more accessible and welcoming . . .

[Suffolkcoastal]

Sounds like the green light for a full merger with CFM, keeping just the Proms for live broadcasts.

[french frank]

I think you're mistaking my explanation for my opinion.

No, I'm not - I'm paying you the compliment of having the same opinion as we/I do - you merely feel constrained to defend the indefensible because it's 'what is'. And, as we know, 'Whatever is, is right'!

The point which you weren't addressing is why such antics should be broadcast on Radio 3 when obviously the audience that will appreciate them is listening to/viewing other [BBC] stations.

[doversoul1]

why such antics should be broadcast on Radio 3 when obviously the audience that will appreciate them is listening to/viewing other [BBC] stations.

ff
The answer is blindingly, B****obvious. To get THAT audience to listen to Radio3. It is saying WE ARE THE STATION YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO. LOOK WHAT WE ARE DOING. COME AND JOIN US….

[vinteuil]

No, I'm not - I'm paying you the compliment of having the same opinion as we/I do - you merely feel constrained to defend the indefensible because it's 'what is'. And, as we know, 'Whatever is, is right'!

.

... which is, of course (as Pope intended, in a lost variant of An Essay on Man), to be read - "Whatever IS, is WRIGHT."

[french frank]

... which is, of course (as Pope intended, in a lost variant of An Essay on Man),

Pope, of course! But you sent me scuttling to look up Thomas Morell, librettist of Handel's Jephtha, in which the phrase also appears. That was what I was thinking of but, yup, Pope was first by some 18 years.

[Eudaimonia]

Well, in the words of Jewish grandmothers everywhere, "it is what it is". "Defending" and "accepting" are two entirely different concepts, as I'm sure you know. Personally, I'd rather be pragmatic and proactive than waste my breath eternally tilting at windmills.

Can't anyone think of some positive suggestions of how the presenters might promote this event in a way that isn't so disruptive and jarring? Let's try to bring something to the table rather than sit around stating the obvious and being neurotic. I mean, I know firsthand that can be quite the enjoyable pastime, but really now!

Since I went to all the Proms this summer, I ended up seeing the Basil Brush concert...all I can say is it wasn't as dire as it might have been. Quite a few of the children I was sitting near seemed very engaged and excited by watching the orchestra, and it was quite surreal to see a roomful of kids listening attentively to John Adams. Overall, would I have thought Red Nose Day was a good fit for the R3 audience? Not in a million years-- but then, I'm not under pressure from all sides to be "relevant and welcoming" either. Other BBC stations were already doing events, so who knows where it came from.

And as far as the Controller goes, I'm sure being forced to attend the damn thing will be punishment enough. Can you imagine? He's going to have to sit in the middle of Royal Albert Hall, put on a red nose, play the kazoo, and pretend like he likes it. Yep, I'd say that's positively cruel and unusual.

[doversoul1]

Eudaimonia
May I suggest you read through the thread?

[french frank]

Can't anyone think of some positive suggestions of how the presenters might promote this event in a way that isn't so disruptive and jarring?

As it's not being broadcast live, it wouldn't be at all disruptiver and jarring if they didn't bother to record it and broadcast three days later as an evening concert. No recording equipment and engineers in attendance, more money for the charity.

[MickyD]

Did anyone else listen to Breakfast yesterday morning when Rob Cowan played an extract of Beethoven's "Eroica" on his kazoo? He didn't tell us the title before and of course listeners had to text in with their answers. I'm not against fund-raising events, but I truly couldn't believe that this was R3.