Brandenburg 6

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

.... this was the first piece of music that ever taught me what greatness in music might be like .... it is a constant companion since i was 16 i suppose .... first heard a version by Otto Klemperer and the Philharmonia

and loved many later versions including Karl Richter, Münchener Bach Orchester

and Pickett


all such memories made me feel that the accelerated dry HIPP version by M Huggett and the OAE {?} this am was an arid and dull experience

[heliocentric]

There's nothing else in the world quite like that piece, even by Bach. I'm grateful to you Calum for the link to the Karl Richter video; it was his recordings that introduced me to a great deal of Bach many years ago, particularly the cantatas. I didn't hear Monica Huggett this morning but I'm not sure I would ever have taken to the vibrato in that Klemperer version: hearing it in 2012 it makes me wonder why anyone would ever have thought that was an appropriate way to play it!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

... yep in 1960 that was the surviving way of playing i guess and like you Richter then became the guide to Bach

i find this version very charming

[heliocentric]

i find this version very charming

Me too. The recording I listen to most these days is the one with Sigiswald Kuijken and La Petite Bande. The first movement of the Sixth is actually quite slow relative to most HIPP versions.

[vinteuil]

...

i find this version very charming

]

....thanks for that - yes, it was charming. Do you know who the performers were? It was flagged up as a youtube of Claudio Abbado with Orchestra Mozart, which seems unlikely

[Bryn]

....thanks for that - yes, it was charming. Do you know who the performers were? It was flagged up as a youtube of Claudio Abbado with Orchestra Mozart, which seems unlikely

But that's exactly who it was. Do you not have the DVDs? Not fully HIPP, by any means, but delightful performances of all six.

[By the way, I do have the commercial DVDs now, but my fist encounter with these performances was via Sky Arts, back in the days when I subscribed.]

[vinteuil]

But that's exactly who it was.

,,, but, Bryn - that's fascinating! - the Brandenburg 6 - which I thought was charming - was one-voice-to-a-part - which is what I more and more want, not just in Bach cantatas - Passions - etc - but also in the so-called "orchestral" works.

So Claudio Abbado now is a proponent of one-voice-to-a-part instrumental works - and no conductor!

Marvellous!

[heliocentric]

So Claudio Abbado now is a proponent of one-voice-to-a-part instrumental works - and no conductor!

Steady on, vinteuil. I can't think of ever hearing any performances of no.6 that didn't use one instrument to a part. Can anyone else? (edit) Well, OK, Karajan.

[rauschwerk]

Steady on, vinteuil. I can't think of ever hearing any performances of no.6 that didn't use one instrument to a part. Can anyone else? (edit) Well, OK, Karajan.

Try some of these! http://sounds.bl.uk/Classical-music/Bach Henry Wood (with the British Symphony Orchestra)in 1930 has what sounds like a full string band but his tempi may well surprise you!

[vinteuil]

... why would one-voice-to-a-part performances ever require a conductor? it wd be like 'conducting' a string quartet!

Was Klemperer's ovpp? if so, what was he doing??

[heliocentric]

if so, what was he doing??

Making movements with his arms that seem to have nothing to do with the music, as he normally did, I shouldn't wonder!

You're right, rauschwerk, there's a shedload of violas in that Henry Wood performance... but what I find hard to understand is that no. 6 was being played (at least in the mid-20th century) using solo instruments by orchestras which then played all the others with a full string section, while the style of no.6 isn't much different from the others.

[Dave2002]

Try some of these! http://sounds.bl.uk/Classical-music/Bach Henry Wood (with the British Symphony Orchestra)in 1930 has what sounds like a full string band but his tempi may well surprise you!

The Busch Chamber players have a very relaxed style - and it's pretty slow. Plus some slurpy portamenti! Doesn't sound like an express train though. Some may grimace or grit their teeth on hearing this.

http://sounds.bl.uk/Classical-music/Bach/026M-1CL0054719XX-0100V0

Fascinating.

[heliocentric]

Fascinating.

And a major landmark in the history of Bach recordings, to be sure.

[Ariosto]

I'm not sure I would ever have taken to the vibrato in that Klemperer version: hearing it in 2012 it makes me wonder why anyone would ever have thought that was an appropriate way to play it!

You should face the fact that there are plenty of people who prefer the non-HIP version of a piece such as Brandenburg 6.

Back in the days when I played professionally (Up until about the early 1990's) I often played this work and it was certainly not a HIP version! There are people that like HIP and people that do not, so your comment about it not being appropriate in 2012 is a bit naff.

That is not to say I particularly like the Klemplerer version (I notice the players never get a mention) partly because the upper player sounds a bit weak, or maybe it was badly balanced, and perhaps it was just a notch slow for my taste.

I have a colleage and friend who was recently teaching two quite talented viola players and they performed this work about two years ago several times in London with a small group of players - all of it traditional and certainly non-HIP. They have both gone on to study at two of the London colleges with quite high powered teachers, and neither have obviously taken the HIP route - both now aged about 18 or 19.

I think that HIP is disproportionally represented here on this forum and also on Radio 3 - where AMc on the CD Review programme on Saturdays seems to promote it a lot. In real life this is not the case. At the Wigmore Hall for instance, just one venue, how often do we see HIP performances? Not that often, most of the performances are traditional. Same with most other venues I would think.

But, repeating myself, you should really accept the fact that there are two camps as far as performance style is concerned. (Or maybe three, ones who are only for HIP, ones who are totally against HIP, and those that tolerate both. I sort of fall into the latter, mostly prefering non HIP but occasionally hearing something that I consider well played in a HIP version).

[rauschwerk]

I'm afraid that, as far as I am concerned, Klemperer is far too slow. This is an Allegro in cut time (2 main beats to the bar) and for my money that means too fast to count the quavers easily. It's probably quite similar in speed to the Munchinger version I was brought up on, but I am not at all nostalgic for that!