Rob's 'Essential Choice'

[Tony Halstead]

On a car journey today I turned the radio on at some time between 11am and 12 midday.
I was at first intrigued and eventually shocked to hear several movements of the Bach D minor 'cello suite 'attacked' and musically distorted.
At first I assumed that it was a 'fly on the wall' recording of maybe a 'Grade 8' exam.. but no, at the end ( blissfull) Rob told us that it was Pablo Casals and that maybe many listeners would be 'tearful'...
I wasn't 'tearful' at all but I was immensely saddened to think that this frequently scratchy, rhythmically wilful reading has been for many years praised and touted as 'gospel' by ( deaf?) musical critics and commentators!
I am fully aware that my comments are of course extremely 'iconoclastic' but am I alone in my views?

[Dave2002]

On a car journey today I turned the radio on at some time between 11am and 12 midday.
I was at first intrigued and eventually shocked to hear several movements of the Bach D minor 'cello suite 'attacked' and musically distorted.
At first I assumed that it was a 'fly on the wall' recording of maybe a 'Grade 8' exam.. but no, at the end ( blissfull) Rob told us that it was Pablo Casals and that maybe many listeners would be 'tearful'...
I wasn't 'tearful' at all but I was immensely saddened to think that this frequently scratchy, rhythmically wilful reading has been for many years praised and touted as 'gospel' by ( deaf?) musical critics and commentators!
I am fully aware that my comments are of course extremely 'iconoclastic' but am I alone in my views?

Interesting. I can't do more than note this right now as I didn't hear that. I may have the same performance on CDs, so could perhaps look it out.

I did, however, hear the Berlioz conducted by Paray, which I thought was very good. As I've now realised that I have it in the Mercury box set I'm having another listen. It is very good (still).

Another surprise was Tchaikovsky's Polish symphony yesterday, conducted by Svetlanov. The recording sounded a bit rough, but overall I found most of what I heard pretty good. Someone else here has recently suggested that Tchaikovsky 3 would have been better committed to the trash can, and on occasions I would have agreed. Svetlanov clearly did something to make it bearable. I shall look out for that recording.

Like you I was driving on both occasions.

[AmpH]

On a car journey today I turned the radio on at some time between 11am and 12 midday.
I was at first intrigued and eventually shocked to hear several movements of the Bach D minor 'cello suite 'attacked' and musically distorted.
At first I assumed that it was a 'fly on the wall' recording of maybe a 'Grade 8' exam.. but no, at the end ( blissfull) Rob told us that it was Pablo Casals and that maybe many listeners would be 'tearful'...
I wasn't 'tearful' at all but I was immensely saddened to think that this frequently scratchy, rhythmically wilful reading has been for many years praised and touted as 'gospel' by ( deaf?) musical critics and commentators!
I am fully aware that my comments are of course extremely 'iconoclastic' but am I alone in my views?

I can understand where you are coming from regarding the Casals Bach suite - Pierre Fournier is usually my first port of call for the cello suites.

Hope you heard the Paul Paray Symphony Fantastique - a really superb recording IMO

[Pabmusic]

...I wasn't 'tearful' at all but I was immensely saddened to think that this frequently scratchy, rhythmically wilful reading has been for many years praised and touted as 'gospel' by ( deaf?) musical critics and commentators!
I am fully aware that my comments are of course extremely 'iconoclastic' but am I alone in my views?

I share your reservations - at least, sort of. They're very old recordings (1930s?) made when there was no widespread appreciation of the 'rightness' - or otherwise - of performance style. These recordings were the only way for most people to hear the music, and Pau Casals was the genius who magically allowed that. A sort of mythology grew up, in which certain artists were represented as other-worldly geniuses - Stokowski and Glenn Gould were examples - and wilful recordings of what the artist 'felt' at the time became became common. The philosophy seemed to be that you left a concert, awed by the depth to which the artist had been moved - rather than necessarily feeling moved yourself - by the music.

Maybe its more difficult now to sustain such a 'cult of the artist' when there are so many alternatives around.

[jayne lee wilson]

Interesting. I can't do more than note this right now as I didn't hear that. I may have the same performance on CDs, so could perhaps look it out.

I did, however, hear the Berlioz conducted by Paray, which I thought was very good. As I've now realised that I have it in the Mercury box set I'm having another listen. It is very good (still).


Another surprise was Tchaikovsky's Polish symphony yesterday, conducted by Svetlanov. The recording sounded a bit rough, but overall I found most of what I heard pretty good. Someone else here has recently suggested that Tchaikovsky 3 would have been better committed to the trash can, and on occasions I would have agreed. Svetlanov clearly did something to make it bearable. I shall look out for that recording.

Like you I was driving on both occasions.

D2002 - if that was the 1968 Edinburgh Polish from Svetlanov, it's available as lossless download from theclassicalshop and eclassical, or on CD, from BBC Legends. Having sampled mp3 excerpts I decided against buying, because despite decent detail and clarity, and the perceptible russian-ness and commitment of the playing, it does tend to roughness and congestion in climaxes. Eclassical is very cheap, but it's best to listen carefully to this one before purchase.

The 1990 live Tokyo reading is vastly superior, but locked into Warners' Complete Symphonies edition or the (probably sonically superior) recent Exton release (all 6 plus Manfred) at HMV Japan. The stunning Canyon Classics original on HDCD is around ... 2ndhand at about £130... You might find the 1967 Studio Melodiya one separately if you search Amazon worldwide.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wasn't 'tearful' at all but I was immensely saddened to think that this frequently scratchy, rhythmically wilful reading has been for many years praised and touted as 'gospel' by ( deaf?) musical critics and commentators!
I am fully aware that my comments are of course extremely 'iconoclastic' but am I alone in my views?

No, you're not, w/h: for years I've tried to hear what's so special about these performances. The significance of the recordings is obvious and undeniable - the first of these masterworks - and of Casals' discovery and promotion of them (for which we all owe him a tremendous debt) - but the performances sound terrible to me (and I speak as someone who quite likes the Landowska Bach recordings, so it's not just a question of ancient recordings and performance ideas).

I'm so glad to read your comments!

[Tony Halstead]

Thanks so much, ferneyhoughgeliebte !
IMV those Landowska recordings are 'required listening' whereas - sadly- the Casals ones are not.

[Richard Tarleton]

No, you're not, w/h: for years I've tried to hear what's so special about these performances. The significance of the recordings is obvious and undeniable - the first of these masterworks - and of Casals' discovery and promotion of them (for which we all owe him a tremendous debt) - but the performances sound terrible to me (and I speak as someone who quite likes the Landowska Bach recordings, so it's not just a question of ancient recordings and performance ideas).

I'm so glad to read your comments!

My sentiments entirely. I think the Casals versions would need to have been the first ones you heard. Segovia is another artist Rob's unqualified eulogies for whom don't make a lot of sense today.

[antongould]

I have found this brief thread very thought provoking - the Casals was not RC's choice Essential or otherwise but it was made as part of Rob's Private Passions by Richard Sennett who I have found to be very interesting. My migration/introduction to classical music has been, possibly regrettably, artist led via the already mentioned Glenn Gould, Casals and others.
Thus for me the Casals Bach will always have a place in my heart.
Is this wrong? I also love some of the Cortot, Casals and Thibaud Trio recordings.

As so often I don't really know what I'm saying/asking, possibly can historical recordings have an eternal appeal to many because of the fact they were the first or because of the historical context. Today Sennett chose the Faure Piano Quartet No.2 recorded by Long, Thibaud, Fournier and Vieux as the Nazi hordes were closing in...........

[aeolium]

Thus for me the Casals Bach will always have a place in my heart.
Is this wrong? I also love some of the Cortot, Casals and Thibaud Trio recordings.

Certainly not wrong, antongould. I am not that keen on solo cello so cannot comment re the Casals Bach suites but I too love the Cortot/Casals/Thibaud recording of the Schubert B flat trio - that will always be one of my favourite performances, as will the Casals/Szell/Czech PO recording of the Dvorak concerto. The first time I heard the Schubert string quintet was in the Prades festival recording with Casals and Tortelier on cellos, Isaac Stern and Alexander Schneider on violins and Milton Katims on viola - that too remains in my memory, even though there are other recordings of the work I would now rather hear.

[JFLL]

As so often I don't really know what I'm saying/asking, possibly can historical recordings have an eternal appeal to many because of the fact they were the first or because of the historical context. Today Sennett chose the Faure Piano Quartet No.2 recorded by Long, Thibaud, Fournier and Vieux as the Nazi hordes were closing in...........

There's something in what you say, AG. I immensely enjoyed the first movement of the Faure 2nd PQ with Long, Thibaud et al. today, and immediately downloaded it from Pristine Classical. Pity we couldn't have the whole quartet, but that's R3 mornings for you these days. According to the Pristine notes, there was an added poignancy here because Thibaud's son was fighting the Nazis in Belgium and was in fact killed two days later.

One thinks, too, of Mahler's 9th with Walter in the Vienna of 1938, just before the Anschluss, Talich's Ma Vlast of 1939 in Nazi-occupied Prague (with a spontaneous performance of the Czech national anthem by the audience) and Rostropovich's performance of the Dvorak at the Proms in August 1968, the day after the Soviets marched into Czechoslovakia.

[vinteuil]

... another notorious historical moment - the Schuricht performance in October 1939 with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde , disrupted by a woman heckler calling out "Deutschland über alles, Herr Schuricht".

[Nick Armstrong]

... another notorious historical moment - the Schuricht performance in October 1939 with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde , disrupted by a woman heckler calling out "Deutschland über alles, Herr Schuricht".

I have it on CD. Blood curdling.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

anton and aeolium's posts have reminded me how good Casals was playing Schubert as a member of a chamber ensemble (there's also a very good recording of the Fifth Symphony that he conducts with the Marlboro Festival Orchestra).

I just don't like his solo Bach recordings.

(I love Edwin Fischer's, though, and Menuhin's ... and the Busch Ensemble's Brandenburgs)

[Don Petter]

anton and aeolium's posts have reminded me how good Casals was playing Schubert as a member of a chamber ensemble

.. and Brahms. The first sextet, Op.18, with Alexander Schneider, Milton Thomas, Madeline Foley, Pablo Casals, Isaac Stern,
Milton Katims, Myra Hess - Sublime!