Far too much Schubloke

[Norfolk Born]

9 days devoted exclusively to music by, and programmes about, a single composer hardly ranks as broadcasting (as in BBC).

[amateur51]

On the songs, specifically: over time there could have been some wonderful programmes that included performances of all of them: looking at the context of Schubert's circle of friends, the poets he knew as well as those he didn't know personally but set (Susan Youens' has done some brilliant work on Schubert's poets and on Winterreise); other song writers; the political context of the work, etc. That, for me, would be taking the extraordinary music of Schubert seriously. To look at the great instrumental works together with what was happening in Viennese musical life, and with Schubert's responses to Beethoven's music.

To look at Winterreise together with Romantic figures of the solitary, the wanderer, the outside society / beyond life and death (Wordsworth's solitaries). To consider Schubert's music as something other than another spin of the cultural jukebox.

[amateur51]

Talking about the Beethoven, Bach and Mozart marathons, RW wrote: "What all these programming initiatives have in common is that they are all different ways in which to draw attention to what Radio 3 does on a daily basis."

In many ways the Schubertathon has been the most ambitious in its programming variety, especially the digital stuff. But I really do get the impression that it is a huge, glorious way of communicating with the outside world in the hope that the outside world will take a bit of notice. It's not primarily a music festival for music lovers, many of whom have just switched off. It has some interesting gimmicks and some tired old tat.

To this would-be listener it has looked like a juggernaut driven by a psychopath who requires me to find the playlist on social media.

I have not just felt put off by the form, I have felt excluded, forced away

And that's not because it's 'new'; it's because it's third-rate

[french frank]

So the whole thing has simply been one big marketing ploy?

Let's be clear: this was my personal interpretation. And I do think that the marketing angle is the prime reason for these projects.

It's also clear that a great deal of effort has been put into the 'initiative' [sic], some new ideas have been introduced which some parts of the target audience have much enjoyed and there is absolutely nothing wrong in trying to 'draw attention to what Radio 3 does on a daily basis' (though this does depend a bit on what they're doing 'on a daily basis').

However, the BBC now considers that its public service duty consists overwhelmingly in catering for the largest number of 'consumers' for the greatest possible amount of time each week.

The kind of celebration of Schubert's music suggested by John Skelton in Msg #23 is made almost impossible (but not quite!) by the unvaryingly bland, presenter-led familiar 'strands' which fill the schedule and are carefully designed to keep people 'listening', even if only in the most detached way; though the afternoons could be used much more imaginatively. But ... I think that cramming all of Schubert into nine days has the advantage (in management's view) of having the disaffected switching off but quickly returning again when it's over; and new listeners will pop in now and again and perhaps continue listening when the circus leaves town. QEF. The variety and unpredictability of a changing 'specialist' afternoon schedule would have wallpaper listeners permanently switching off and declaring Radio 3 to be 'boring', 'stuffy' and 'over formal'.

Radio 3 seems to feel the greatest crime producers can commit on a daily basis is putting on anything that causes a significant number of people to switch off. I think the opposite: it's their absolute duty to put on minority interest programmes, lots of them, for those who positively want to listen to them. And not just 'Hear and Now' stuck up in the late slot in order to tick the New Music box.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

over time there could have been some wonderful programmes

Sums up my feeling about the whole enterprise, John.

[Carmen]

Let's be clear: this was my personal interpretation. And I do think that the marketing angle is the prime reason for these projects.

It's also clear that a great deal of effort has been put into the 'initiative' [sic], some new ideas have been introduced which some parts of the target audience have much enjoyed and there is absolutely nothing wrong in trying to 'draw attention to what Radio 3 does on a daily basis' (though this does depend a bit on what they're doing 'on a daily basis').

However, the BBC now considers that its public service duty consists overwhelmingly in catering for the largest number of 'consumers' for the greatest possible amount of time each week.

The kind of celebration of Schubert's music suggested by John Skelton in Msg #23 is made almost impossible (but not quite!) by the unvaryingly bland, presenter-led familiar 'strands' which fill the schedule and are carefully designed to keep people 'listening', even if only in the most detached way; though the afternoons could be used much more imaginatively. But ... I think that cramming all of Schubert into nine days has the advantage (in management's view) of having the disaffected switching off but quickly returning again when it's over; and new listeners will pop in now and again and perhaps continue listening when the circus leaves town. QEF. The variety and unpredictability of a changing 'specialist' afternoon schedule would have wallpaper listeners permanently switching off and declaring Radio 3 to be 'boring', 'stuffy' and 'over formal'.

Radio 3 seems to feel the greatest crime producers can commit on a daily basis is putting on anything that causes a significant number of people to switch off. I think the opposite: it's their absolute duty to put on minority interest programmes, lots of them, for those who positively want to listen to them. And not just 'Hear and Now' stuck up in the late slot in order to tick the New Music box.

But I simply can't believe that the Schubertathon hasn't resulted in the "crime" of significant numbers of people switching off. This is why I asked, in another strand, if it was possible to get hold of the listening figures for this eight and a half days. I imagine too that Classic FM has seen a swing upwards this week.

I wholeheartedly agree with minority interest programmes being regularly broadcast, but not for this length of time. A day, now and again, of carefully selected programmes on Schubert (or any other composer) would be perfectly acceptable to me.

The "disaffected" will indeed flock back from midnight tonight, but we remain the disaffected. And Mr Wright and his team don't seem to much care about that.

[french frank]

But I simply can't believe that the Schubertathon hasn't resulted in the "crime" of significant numbers of people switching off.

Well, exactly. But the gamble is that in the long run they will win by gaining new listeners and regaining the refuseniks once the charade is over.

This is why I asked, in another strand, if it was possible to get hold of the listening figures for this eight and a half days.

I started to answer that question but got bogged down in detail.

The short answer is No. The BBC went to the High Court to overturn a decision by the Information Commissioner that viewing (and listening) figures were not covered by the BBC's FOI exemption. (In other words, they established their claim that the figures were exempt and they weren't legally obliged to disclose them.) They disclose figures which are BBC 'good news' stories, of course ...

I imagine too that Classic FM has seen a swing upwards this week.

We'll never know - and over the entire quarter, 9 days will have a minimal effect. Especially when R3's morning schedule tries so hard reciprocally to pull over CFM listeners to R3.

I wholeheartedly agree with minority interest programmes being regularly broadcast, but not for this length of time. A day, now and again, of carefully selected programmes on Schubert (or any other composer) would be perfectly acceptable to me.

I was thinking more in terms of a 90-minute (or so) programme once a week for a number of weeks. First decide what you want the series to focus on and cover; then work out how much time you will need; then allocate the daily amount and the number of weeks needed. The idea is that those with a special interest will tune in for the programmes (and listen on the iPlayer if they can't listen in the afternoons); while those who aren't interested only have to forgo part of one afternoon a week for a few weeks.

If casual listeners tune in and find it 'intimidating', it's doing its job properly!

[doversoul1]

If this is BBC’s marketing strategy (I have no doubt that it is), how does it hope to keep the new listeners they have enticed by All Day Shubert when Radio3 goes back to playing Bruckner and Britten? It’s not the same as offering customers an expensive product at a reduced price hoping that if they like it, they’ll buy it at the full price. Or is it the figure of this nine (or was it eight?) days that matters?

[ed.] Or is Shubert supposed to be an ideal introduction to classical music in general?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Or is Schubert supposed to be an ideal introduction to classical music in general?

Would that this flawed supposition were part of the "rationale" behind the 'thon - at least then there would be a decent, honourable Musical basis upon which it was based.

Instead, I think it's merely part of the "Complete List" culture of lazy broadcasting: "we've done Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Stravinsky & Tchaikovsky: who shall we do next? Heads = Haydn, tails = Schubert."

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Talking about the Beethoven, Bach and Mozart marathons, RW wrote: "What all these programming initiatives have in common is that they are all different ways in which to draw attention to what Radio 3 does on a daily basis."

But the culture of idiotic boasting is now so widespread that it must originate with the producers of these programmes, desperate to confer grandeur on what's vapid, to suggest drama where there is none, to make heroes of buffoons and, of course, when it comes to talent shows, to make buffoons of sad sacks.
Howard Jacobson

i claim the £5 i have not listened to R3 for over seven days and will not resume doing so for a little while yet ...

there is no more marked demonstration of the lack of intelligence and judgement in the present management of R3 than these conceited marathons and the accompanying puffery and preening

[aeolium]

"Live music, long-form drama, crafted speech programming and new work lie at the heart of Radio 3's unique service ... the network remains the only place you can find such a diversity of top-quality cultural and music programmes."

The author - Roger Wright in 1999, shortly after he had taken over as Controller of R3. I'd say these composerthons have about as much diversity as a motorway (and I thought so when the first one was produced)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

i claim the £5 i have not listened to R3 for over seven days and will not resume doing so for a little while yet ...

there is no more marked demonstration of the lack of intelligence and judgement in the present management of R3 than these conceited marathons and the accompanying puffery and preening

Having subjected the supposed new listeners to just one composer, I suspect many of them will have come to the conclusion that classical music is boring and all sounds the same.

[Roehre]

.... I suspect many of them will have come to the conclusion that classical music is boring and all sounds the same.

Isn't it, doesn't it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'd say these composerthons have about as much diversity as a motorway

Brilliant simile, aeolie.

[Bax-of-Delights]

Well, here's another long-time R3 listener who has sought his "fix" elsewhere over the last 8 days and now I've discovered that there's a whole world on Youtube of the kind of music I enjoy and which has remained unheard (on R3) I find that there is little in R3's output to want me to come back.
There are for example Russian composers such as Peiko :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx7RpzDWI0Y&feature=plcp&context=C45c5990VDvjVQa1PpcFMQ8mC_eFHZaQ30ASbRU4FMidCfHY_ge3w=

or exploring down the right-hand side one can surf ever deeper into the further realms of composers I've never heard of.

Why on earth would I want to suffer the bletherings of "DJs" and the loop of 100 favourite tunes when I can EXPAND my musical knowledge elsewhere?