Through the Night

[kernelbogey]

Manelli, Francesco [1594-1667]
Bergamasca 'La barchetta passaggiera'
Le Poème Harmonique, Vincent Dumestre (theorbo/Baroque guitar/director)

There are several such items in this morning's TTN from a Prom given by Le Poème Harmonique in (I think) 2010. The bits I heard sounded very interesting and I shall 'listen again' again!

Recommened.

[french frank]

There are several such items in this morning's TTN from a Prom given by Le Poème Harmonique in (I think) 2010. The bits I heard sounded very interesting and I shall 'listen again' again!

Recommened.

I was about to mention this on the Early Music Show Board, but as it's been mentioned here - just a bump to say it's now in the iPlayer.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to be raising this, but, did anyone hear the recording of Havergal Brian's Gothic on last night's TTN? It was last year's Prom performance, in a "version" that, on my fm radio, to my ears, far outpassed the broadcast in sound quality, completely changing my perception of the work for the better, both in terms of the magnificent clarity of orchestration for such huge forces achieved by composer and realised here, and diminution of the compression experienced, in my case, via the original fm transmission.

Was this marked improvement a remix, so to speak, I wonder?

[Bryn]

... Was this marked improvement a remix, so to speak, I wonder?

Memory playing tricks, perhaps. I've just checked the HD Sound option via the iPlayer. Identical profile to the original HD Sound version I'm sorry to say. They did not even lift the dynamic limit from the -9.9dB of the original.

[Serial_Apologist]

Memory playing tricks, perhaps. I've just checked the HD Sound option via the iPlayer. Identical profile to the original HD Sound version I'm sorry to say. They did not even lift the dynamic limit from the -9.9dB of the original.

Hmmm - ah well, it was late night, and I was listening on my little bedside radio/alarm!

[Dave2002]

Memory playing tricks, perhaps. I've just checked the HD Sound option via the iPlayer. Identical profile to the original HD Sound version I'm sorry to say. They did not even lift the dynamic limit from the -9.9dB of the original.

I'm not quite sure how they could/should have done this - though I suppose it depends what they did during the recording. If the BBC engineers had thought that there might be an interest in full range recording they could have done two or three parallel recordings - say 10 dB apart - or maybe even 20 dB apart. Given such source material it might have been possible to put together a finished product with greater and more realistic dynamic range. I'm thinking of a similar technique used in photography, and some newer cameras, which gives better image dynamic range.

Another simpler approach would have been to record the sound levels in the hall, in parallel with the music recording. At least then there'd have been a steering track to put back the correct dynamics, though low level resolution - possibly inaudible - would have been lost.

Perhaps as a broadcasting company the BBC thought that they couldn't afford the extra equipment and technical support to do a full range recording, though given the cost of putting on the work at the RAH, and the known fact that there was going to be a recording, maybe that was short sighted.

Are microphones able to cope with very loud inputs? Is it possible to damage a microphone (obviously, yes - but with what levels of noise)? I just wonder if microphone positioning has any effect - though I'm assuming that most microphones can cope, and will simply produce some form of overload distortion if placed too close to loud sources. This would need correction/suppression post production if it occurs.

Having said that, I am currently listening to the TTN rendition - and it doesn't sound too bad. I didn't take the opportunity to hear this work again this year, so I have no memory reference to compare with. The section about 1 hour 43 mins into TTN sounds as though it might have been really loud.

Does this piece get better on repeated listening? I'm not totally convinced.

[Bryn]

... The section about 1 hour 43 mins into TTN sounds as though it might have been really loud.

It should be the loudest section of the work by some margin. However, due to the hard dynamic limiting applied (presumably to the final stereo output from the desk) in fact the highest peak (-9.9dB) is towards the end of the first movement in that broadcast recording. It only just makes it, the great outbursts at the end of the symphony register 0.1dB lower (-10.0dB). In fact, there is a peak which also registers at -9.9dB during the "la la la la" section, but a scan for the greatest peak level homes in on that near the end of the first movement. To me this suggests that whether by oversight or intent, a -10dB ceiling was applied to the stereo mix, and thus everything above that got squashed.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Does this piece get better on repeated listening? I'm not totally convinced.

Neither was I, Dave, until this Brabbins Prom performance, which was about the seventh time I'd heard the work but the first to convince me that it is a work of great stature.

[Dave2002]

One other thing. The TTN version was presumably the BBC version as all the TTN offerings AFAIK come fom EBU (including the BBC) partners. Was there any improvement in the commercial recording? Previous posts suggest not much.

[Nick Armstrong]

Having an excellent late Friday night - just caught the last 2 movements of a Brahms 2 on TTN which I found tremendous, especially a really terrific last movement. I was trying to guess who was playing, and was delighted (and I have to say, surprised) to find it was the BBC SO under Belohlávek from the 2008 Proms. Surprised, because I've always tended to think of JB as rather staid... But this was world class. Sorry, Jiri

[vinteuil]

. Surprised, because I've always tended to think of JB as rather staid

... Johannes Brahms staid??


[ ... why will people persist in using initials ... ]

[Bryn]

One other thing. The TTN version was presumably the BBC version as all the TTN offerings AFAIK come fom EBU (including the BBC) partners. Was there any improvement in the commercial recording? Previous posts suggest not much.

Hyperion managed a great deal of improvement in the sound. What they were not able to do was recover much, if any, of the lost gradation in dynamics above the -10dB limit imposed on the original mix. I would not wish to put anyone off getting the Hyperion issue. It's streets above the Testament transfer of an FM broadcast of the Boult (replete with 19kHz stereo carrier peak) or the Naxos (which has the dynamic range but which is not of the same standard of performance and suffers changes in ambience (probably due to the two seasonally separated recording sessions),

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

[ ... why will people persist in using initials ...

I blame the Automobile Association (or is it Alcoholics Anonymous?) Thread.

[Nick Armstrong]

[ ... why will people persist in using initials ... ]

I know, it's such a beastly modern tendency isn't it? Life's gone to pot since the SPQR shoved their initials on all those frightful new buildings...

[amateur51]

I know, it's such a beastly modern tendency isn't it? Life's gone to pot since the SPQR shoved their initials on all those frightful new buildings...

Cali AND ferney on form simultaneously - will the centre hold?