So what's wrong with Radio 3 Breakfast?

[french frank]

In general I feel the musical choice is aimed at new listeners and waking workers if you feel that R3 should have no interest in these groups then I suppose your choices are fine.

An alternative strategy would be to encourage 'new' listeners from Classic FM and R2 to raise their game rather than remove virtually all the sensible programming from the mornings and alienate existing listeners. It may mean that not all of them would stay, but then again it might encourage some of us back.

[amateur51]

Blimey! They're now nicking their ideas from these Boards!

Quick! Someone start a "Let's Just Shut Up and Play Some Music" Thread!

[Barbirollians]

I found that idiot twittering on about Peter and the Wolf this morning particularly annoying and then yet more e-mailing in about their experiences of the piece - ghastly Classic FM style guff

[old khayyam]

Well in short we probably all agree the answer is quite a lot, as Sarah articulated in the response to the letter from the BBC Trust. But the problem for me is that while we may collectively share an antipathy to the style and content of the current Breakfast programme, do we all share a view of what we would wish it to be instead? If the million or so previous listeners were all (presumably) satisfied with the programme two years ago, are all of them equally dissatisfied with the programme today?
The problem with many campaign groups is they are better at expressing what they don't like than presenting a cogent and persuasive alternative. For my part this is what I don't like about the current presentation:-
1) The baseless jollity of presenters such as Sara Mohr Pietsch who regale us with the idea that listening to serious muisic is not a pleasure, it is "fun".
2) The idea that listening to the programme makes me a part of a group.
3) The idea that I should immediately express my enjoyment back to the programme (and the rest of the "group") to somehow enhance our collective "listening experience".
4)The idea that "success" is expressed in listener figures. What is the point of a license if the BBC becomes obsessed with market share as though it is a commercial station?


And what I don't like about the current musical policy
1) The replacement of a selection of music on its merits with a formula - so that (eg) the first piece after 7am is almost always a fanfare.
2) The idea that the music is more enjoyable if it is already familiar to the listener.
3) The idea that large, stirring grandiose symphonic overtures are more enjoyable than lighter more esoteric pieces.
4) The idea that having listeners select a musical choice somehow "democratises" the "listening experience", thus transforning listeners into "stakeholders" - presumably to fulfil some BBC edict, as though this handful of tiresome tweeters and emailers can somehow represent the million or so who do not wish to subscribe.
5) I do not like the preponderance of overtures. And because they are familiar we get the same old pieces over and over - the same old foreplay without the follow up. Everything that Radio 3 once stood against.
6) I don't like phone ins. Why is someone else's emotional association of a piece relevant or even interesting to me?

So what do I want instead? Is this what others want too?

1) I want to hear unfamiliar music. I want every Radio 3 programme to be part of my lifelong musical education.
2) I want presenters to inform on the pieces without using false jollity (Pietsch) or false reverence( Cowan)
3) I want humour to be dry and droll (Trelawney). I do not want to have "fun" at 7 in the morning (Pietsch)
4) I like chamber music, whether it is from the 18th century or the 20th
5) I like a smattering of early, sacred and profane music.
6) I like a smattering of vocal pieces especially accompanied by a solo instrument such as a piano
7) I like pieces written for unfashionable instruments
8) I love short pieces written especially for a solo woodwind instrument.
9) I like an occasional march so long as it is not the Dambusters.
10) I like pieces that convey a sense of peace and tranquility in the morning. I am sick of being shocked out of bed by overtures to ballet music and movements from the 19th century romantic symphonies.

Does anyone have a very different vision of "their" Breakfast programme?

I'm entirely with you on that DH. Particularly on the Dislikes. I think the Likes become a bit too self-specific from about 4-5, but i'm back with you on 10.

Everyone has their own tastes and vision of what theyd like R3 to be, so it is ironic that the answer lies in what we dont want. If R3 were reading this, i'd suggest they pay more attention to what we are saying is wrong than what we think we want, if you understand me? We all agree on the basic problems which have arrived in recent years. We will never agree on each others preferences.

Although i am sure we all also agree that people chosen to present a programme should obviously be an expert in the field rather than merely an entertaining voice reading from a card.

[french frank]

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The thing that really worries me is the momentum: it's pushing people in the direction of populism. Your Call and the whole style of broadcasting that goes with it are intended to attract new listeners but they also push out old ones (unless their brains become sufficiently softened and lazy that they get used to it). As Radio 1 U-turns back to attracting younger listeners, the older ones move off in disgust to Radio 2 and then agitate for all the 'geriatric' music to be removed and replaced by more pop. Musically, the BBC becomes one huge Fun Palace, competing with the double-glazing and insurance advertising.

[Don Petter]

For a fleeting moment I thought your title was 'In Tune ...'

(Though that might even be an improvement.)

[Domeyhead]

In my first post I included my own musical preferences for early morning listening as "bait" because it would be very surprising if they were shared by all, and I hoped others would reply with their own visions of a personal programme and it is rather reassuring to know that my choices are not universally liked or even popular! In one or two cases my ideal programme might even cause fellow posters to retune so Adam Gatehouse (Brerakfast Editor) would rightly not entertain my own musical vision as any "better" than his or anyone elses. It is easier to state what is not liked about a programme than to offer the controller of Radio 3 some alternative vision that probably leads to a decline in listener figures in exchange for a vague concept of qualitative improvement.
I was going to suggest that listeners like myself could perhaps accept this new diet of "accessible" music (bah) in exchange for a removal of tweets, emails, phone ins and "features" - Radio 3 morning programmes are now infested with these annoying flea bites of facile wittering and the itch continues to irritate well after the flea has hopped away to find out what Jonathan Ross and Stephen Fry are doing. But what compels the presenter to read out a tweet that says nothing more than (eg) "Driving to work -loved the Brahms"? Is there some kind of name-check quota system in operation for each programme? Let these imbeciles tweet away if they must - just don't bother to read them out!
I fear that these changes are gradually turning me into Brian Sewell. My wife is not happy.

[Don Petter]

In my first post I included my own musical preferences for early morning listening as "bait" because it would be very surprising if they were shared by all, and I hoped others would reply with their own visions of a personal programme and it is rather reassuring to know that my choices are not universally liked or even popular!

Like many posters, I agree with your dislikes, but I'm not sure I want to list what I would like. This is partly because I don't want to impose my particular tastes on others, but also because I think R3 should be providing us with many things that we didn't know we wanted, and widening our musical horizons within the classical repertoire.

[aeolium]

Don, I quite agree. There must be quite a number of pieces in the 'Listeners' Recommendations' thread that I personally do not particularly care for but I would be glad to have broadcast because they deserve to be heard, and don't frequently get heard (and of course will appeal to others). It's pointless to have a programme devised around your own tastes.

Having said that, I can't think of any remodelling of the Breakfast programme that would make me listen to it. I haven't listened to it for over a decade and nowadays, with the introduction of Essential Classics, I don't listen to R3 at all in the mornings except on Saturday.

[DublinJimbo]

R3 should be providing us with many things that we didn't know we wanted, and widening our musical horizons within the classical repertoire.

It couldn't be put better. At the risk of falling into the 'Your Tune' trap, I remember back in the glory days stumbling on a programme of Messiaen's organ music on R3 (or whatever it was called in those days). Not only had I never heard anything like it before, but I had never dreamt that I would be so attracted to a completely new sound world, or that I would listen in rapt wonder for an hour and a half to a programme of organ music. Naturally, the introductions to the various pieces added to the experience, being the essence of what a new listener required: informative, knowledgeable, enthusiastic. Apart from the actual music, my abiding memory is one of gratitude to the BBC for opening this door for me.

[Serial_Apologist]

Everyone has their own tastes and vision of what theyd like R3 to be, so it is ironic that the answer lies in what we dont want. If R3 were reading this, i'd suggest they pay more attention to what we are saying is wrong than what we think we want, if you understand me? We all agree on the basic problems which have arrived in recent years. We will never agree on each others preferences.

[Domeyhead]

Ladies and gents absolutely. I agree. I was trying to make the point that what unites us is what we don't like rather than what we do like, which is as diverse as the number of listeners. Not suggesting for a minute that my playlist is a recommendation.

[hafod]

Apart from the actual music, my abiding memory is one of gratitude to the BBC for opening this door for me.

For many years I too remained in gratitude to the Third programme for the countless new avenues it opened up for me but as the years rolled by that happened less and less often and, since the demise of CD masters, I do not remember when it last happened. There is still so much out there to discover but nowadays my main sources of discovery are the record companies. A shame that R3 in its playlist programmes adopts such an unsatisfactory approach in its selections.

[old khayyam]

Fantasy Programming

Seems we're all agreed. Now, just for fun, let us indulge in a little battle of My perfect Day On R3:


5-7am: Matins broadcast each day from a different monastery or convent.

7-9: Pieces for 'light' instruments such as harpsichord, flute, or guitar.

9-11: Brandenbergs.

11-18: (no preference)

18-19: Evensong.

19-onwards: The Deep & Weird. Such as that Sally Beamish and the like.

Saturdays: Broad Palette - jazz, world, avantgarde, improv, et al.

Sundays: Bells On Sunday followed by Morning Worship from a different church/cathedral. The rest of the day would broadcast, live or otherwise, worship from other faiths within the UK.

Please note that across the week there will be plenty of room for talk programmes, provided they are discussing music (at least 90%), and on a deep, philosophical, and oxbridge level.


Not much to ask is it?

[Serial_Apologist]

Seems we're all agreed. Now, just for fun, let us indulge in a little battle of My perfect Day On R3:


5-7am: Matins broadcast each day from a different monastery or convent.

7-9: Pieces for 'light' instruments such as harpsichord, flute, or guitar.

9-11: Brandenbergs.

11-18: (no preference)

18-19: Evensong.

19-onwards: The Deep & Weird. Such as that Sally Beamish and the like.

Saturdays: Broad Palette - jazz, world, avantgarde, improv, et al.

Sundays: Bells On Sunday followed by Morning Worship from a different church/cathedral. The rest of the day would broadcast, live or otherwise, worship from other faiths within the UK.

Please note that across the week there will be plenty of room for talk programmes, provided they are discussing music (at least 90%), and on a deep, philosophical, and oxbridge level.


Not much to ask is it?

I'd mostly go along with that, except I'd have Tibetan Buddhist chanting from 5 to 7 am - since I have a highly resonant bathroom, great for "joining in".