Private Passions

[Nick Armstrong]

....I have to warn you that as I write I eat a favourite meat and potato pie from my local butchers and will not have it spoiled....like wise with PP. If changed to the god-forbidden dufus channel it would [as said] be cut to 30minutes and michael berkley would be gone, and swopped to a cubboard in Bristol (so to the signature tune)....leave well alone...the scab pickers will never be pleased until blood is drawn and mother is called to rebandage....Norman Ackroyd was interesting and took the chance to get a piece of his daughters on the show (one of those modern works which favours murmuration )....and a whole movement of a Beethoven Piano thingy....stop yer nonsense - leave well alone - don't throw yer granny off a bus....

(When I recommend PP to people, I usually refer to it as ‘the thinking person’s Desert Island Discs’… )

[Frances_iom]

And is probably more chat than music, which seems par for the course these days, too.

R3 is in the late middle stages of what can be likened to boiling a crab alive - slowly heat the water until the creature expires, not noticing quite what is happening - the scheme for R3 would appear to move it to easy listening non-pop with mainly chat heavy programmes, the old Third program ethos died years ago (there was no money to be made from it) - we can see from one poster on this board that this is exactly what is required whilst cooking, looking after the kids etc. "Through the Night", lauded and listened to by many, including myself, is not what the old Third programme was about though it has the great advantage of dispensing with the inane chatter of much of the daytime offering.

[Nick Armstrong]

R3 is in the late middle stages of what can be likened to boiling a crab alive - slowly heat the water until the creature expires, not noticing quite what is happening…

I had a rather depressing conversation at a social event last year with a long-time and disillusioned BBC R3 producer (whom I’ve know for years) who described what’s happening to the station as ‘managed demise/decline’ (I can’t remember which ‘d’ word it was - but seem to recollect it was more terminal than mere ‘decline’)

[oddoneout]

Haven't those supporting no change to R4 not noticed how many in-depth arts/culture programmes suited to R3 are now on Radio 4, including a number of music ones I've drawn attention to in my weekly spiel on the jazz bored. P'raps those who like PP on R3 would prefer Desert Island Discs there too? After all, it, too, makes connections between music, work and autobiography.

No I've not noticed because I don't listen to R4 and don't read the jazz threads. However I don't quite see what that has to do with the view that PP "should" be on R4. I would argue rather that the R3 type programmes currently on R4 should come to R3 not that a very longstanding R3 programme shoud go to R4 especially since R4 has DID which in my opinion isn't the same as PP and is very much what I perceive as R4 territory.

[Frances_iom]

I had a rather depressing conversation at a social event last year with a long-time and disillusioned BBC R3 producer (whom I’ve know for years) who described what’s happening to the station as ‘managed demise/decline’ (I can’t remember which ‘d’ word it was - but seem to recollect it was more terminal than mere ‘decline’)

One could say it was on the "Liverpool Pathway" though in its case that of Salford Docks.

[oddoneout]

Agreeing with oddoneout and gurnemanz, I seem to be swimming against the tide, and enjoying this programme more and more. Steady as she goes on R3. It's a light programme, but so are many other R3 programmes.

Sara Lee, this week's subject, and last week's subject, the etching expert, were both very good, and were the type of subject the programme ought to be concerned with. I also enjoyed Wayne Sleep and Ben Watt who appeared recently. May be not strictly classical, but I don't think the Classical world, with its shrinking and aging audience, can afford to ignore the world outside.

Neurosurgeons, Rocket Scientists, and subjects that have made their name in other fields, ring alarm bells in my head. What do they have to do with artistic endeavour? Why were they selected?

Perhaps because they are of interest and have a passion for music? That is the kind of segregation I referred to in my earlier post. Many works in the field of the arts have been and are inspired by what one can broadly call science, and those specialists I have listened to on PP (and encountered elsewhere such as written articles, TV) have on occasion referred to the beauty of what they work with.

[french frank]

R3 is in the late middle stages of what can be likened to boiling a crab alive - slowly heat the water until the creature expires, not noticing quite what is happening

There seems to be no clear agreement about exactly how R3 should differ from R4. Is it an 'elitist' 'not for me' kind of station? Or is it a seamless overlapping, half much the same, half somewhat different kind of station?. I must confess that my heart sinks every time someone volunteers that they 'enjoy' a particular programme. Someone somewhere enjoys every programme on any station. What wider point does that demonstrate?

"Through the Night", lauded and listened to by many, including myself, is not what the old Third programme was about though it has the great advantage of dispensing with the inane chatter of much of the daytime offering.

I agree, yet for some it appears to be the epitome of the kind of programme that R3 should broadcast.

[oddoneout]

There seems to be no clear agreement about exactly how R3 should differ from R4. Is it an 'elitist' 'not for me' kind of station? Or is it a seamless overlapping, half much the same, half somewhat different kind of station?. I must confess that my heart sinks every time someone volunteers that they 'enjoy' a particular programme. Someone somewhere enjoys every programme on any station. What wider point does that demonstrate?



I agree, yet for some it appears to be the epitome of the kind of programme that R3 should broadcast.

Are we lesser mortals not allowed to simply enjoy programmes FF? I find that it can be a good way to get a conversation or exchange of views going, whether I express the view or someone else does.

[french frank]

Are we lesser mortals not allowed to simply enjoy programmes FF?

Yes, of course. Much in the same way as expressing the opinion that a programme is more suitable for R4 isn't a criticism of the programme, which may well be enjoyable and more. And - to use your phrase, which I would never use - 'lesser mortals' could listen to it on R4, or R2. Simply being 'enjoyable' leaves most of my questions unanswered, including the two which immediately preceded the sentence you emphasised in bold in the quote. And the one which followed it.

To clarify: I have no issue with anyone finding any programme 'enjoyable'. But I don't consider that in itself to be relevant to this particular discussion.

[Bryn]

R3 is in the late middle stages of what can be likened to boiling a crab alive - slowly heat the water until the creature expires, not noticing quite what is happening - the scheme for R3 would appear to move it to easy listening non-pop with mainly chat heavy programmes, the old Third program ethos died years ago (there was no money to be made from it) - we can see from one poster on this board that this is exactly what is required whilst cooking, looking after the kids etc. "Through the Night", lauded and listened to by many, including myself, is not what the old Third programme was about though it has the great advantage of dispensing with the inane chatter of much of the daytime offering.

Well, at least you didn't use the urban myth regarding a frog in heating water.

[Frances_iom]

Well, at least you didn't use the urban myth regarding a frog in heating water.

thank you - Manx seafood is excellent (and crabs are now killed before boiling) - however I read the comment to indicate you are more enamoured of the current R3 than I am ?

[Bryn]

thank you - Manx seafood is excellent (and crabs are now killed before boiling) - however I read the comment to indicate you are more enamoured of the current R3 than I am ?

Not really, though having been a frequent listener since before the rebranding from Third Programme to Music Programme and Radio 3, I think there is probably still as much worth listening to as in those days. However, that content has been padded out with a fair amount of what I consider as dross to fill the 24 hours the channel is now broadcast each day. I do miss the serious science programmes such as those which discussed the theorising and experimental confirmation of quarks, etc.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I had a rather depressing conversation at a social event last year with a long-time and disillusioned BBC R3 producer (whom I’ve know for years) who described what’s happening to the station as ‘managed demise/decline’ (I can’t remember which ‘d’ word it was - but seem to recollect it was more terminal than mere ‘decline’)

I think you’ll find that your friend’s comments are true of many areas of the BBC. Unless you are in an area with access to outside investment the cuts have damaged staff morale more or less beyond repair as the recent staff survey makes abundantly clear.

[gurnemanz]

The actual music Radio Three provides is much the same as 50 years ago - in better sound and with the benefit of Listen Again. There is far more of it on a daily basis and there are no interruptions such as Study on Three or cricket commentary. There is still nowhere else to go for eg a live song recital.

The main thing which doesn't appeal to me about Radio 3 nowadays is the morning schedule, especially on Sunday when today we were offered: "Sarah Walker with a glorious musical mix. Sarah Walker chooses three hours of attractive and uplifting music to complement your morning". I opted out as usual and have just looked up a random a Sunday in 1970 to confirm my memory: Bach Cantatas at 9. OK, they already did follow this with a populist concession by way of a phone-in request programme called Your Concert Choice, but this was followed by the ever-enlightening Music Magazine with Anna Instone and Julian Herbage, which I always listened to. To this day I frequently choose to start my Sunday with a Bach Cantata rather than R 3's random mix.

[kernelbogey]

What I have found illuminating and enjoyable about Private Passions, to get back on thread, and occasionally truly inspiring episodes (which I have frequently highlighted on this thread) is a sensitive and informed discussion between Michael and his guest of the way in which music has been important to that guest. This isn't usually much, or anything, to do with their knowledge of and about 'classical' music but the ability to express in words how that connection works for them. Again, this is nothing or rarely to do with knowledge of the composer, composition, musical theory and history - all cognitive aspects of connection with music - but the emotional connection for them with particular pieces: how they fitted into their life, what connections they make with important events or personal experience. The best of these programmes have been superlative broadcasting.