Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

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  • antongould
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 8778

    Originally posted by french frank View Post
    And, incidentally, a pretty smart lesson in searching on Andrew's playlist. All the the works in the programme with full details
    It is a thing of beauty and a joy forever .....

    Comment

    • LMcD
      Full Member
      • Sep 2017
      • 8405

      Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
      As someone who does listen to EC, as well as comment on it, I have to say SK is edging ever closer to driving me away. The originally rather irritating aspects have become so exaggerated as to be a caricature now, and are tending to taint my enjoyment of the music, doing nothing to foster a positive outlook in this listener.
      May I just say that I admire your persistence/tolerance/patience/sense of fair play - she drove me away at quite an early stage.

      Comment

      • Frances_iom
        Full Member
        • Mar 2007
        • 2411

        EC is not intended for serious listening - it is aimed at those who like a bit of a good tune not those deeply into 'Classical music' - like all such shows aimed at a general audience who possess little or no knowledge of the subject the presenter becomes more important than the material presented as the presenter sets the ethos of the show eg what can be dismissed with a quip hence the adoption of an exaggerated persona which the audience can relate to (think of the late top-gear presenter tho in his case I suspect the tv persona was very like the real one - it requires an exceptional presenter to be able to display real knowledge/appreciation yet still keep themselves viewed as 'one of us' by the intended audience

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        • Richard Tarleton

          Originally posted by Frances_iom View Post
          EC is not intended for serious listening - it is aimed at those who like a bit of a good tune not those deeply into 'Classical music' - like all such shows aimed at a general audience who possess little or no knowledge of the subject the presenter becomes more important than the material presented as the presenter sets the ethos of the show eg what can be dismissed with a quip hence the adoption of an exaggerated persona which the audience can relate to (think of the late top-gear presenter tho in his case I suspect the tv persona was very like the real one - it requires an exceptional presenter to be able to display real knowledge/appreciation yet still keep themselves viewed as 'one of us' by the intended audience
          But...but...its predecessor, CD Masters, was very much appreciated by "serious listeners" (as well as, hopefully, relative newcomers), and the presenters (Rob Cowan, Jonathan Swain) set a serious, knowledgeable and non-frivolous tone, appreciated by all. Heaven knows I was not an RC fan, but in the words of Joni Mitchell, Don't it always seem to go
          That you don't know what you've got 'Till it's gone
          . Actually I didn't have much problem with him until he made the transition to EC..... As for presenters on R3 needing to be "one of us" - what does that mean, exactly? One of who?

          Comment

          • french frank
            Administrator/Moderator
            • Feb 2007
            • 30241

            Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
            As for presenters on R3 needing to be "one of us" - what does that mean, exactly? One of who?
            Interesting question. The BBC understands it as 'one of my mates who I enjoy sitting down to a drink with'. To go back to academic life, all lecturers were 'one of us' but we had complementary areas of knowledge. In that sense were 'on the same level' and exchanged information between each other on various topics, including informal interests. There was an assumption that we may know more about A than B, but less about C than D. We didn't sit at the feet of our trusted guides. There is no sense with EC that a section of their audience knows a lot more than they do. (Ian Skelly excluded - he is a bit special).

            I should add that I think the majority of human relationships are 'on the same level'. To be mutually satisfactory.
            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

            Comment

            • antongould
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 8778

              Originally posted by french frank View Post
              ..... There is no sense with EC that a section of their audience knows a lot more than they do. (Ian Skelly excluded - he is a bit special).
              .
              Skellers as Everyman ........

              Comment

              • Richard Tarleton

                The reductio ad absurdum of Frances's argument is that the main morning listening (3 hours) on the BBC's classical music programme is not for people with an interest in classical music...(just for people who happen to have the radio on, perhaps).

                Comment

                • LMcD
                  Full Member
                  • Sep 2017
                  • 8405

                  Originally posted by Frances_iom View Post
                  EC is not intended for serious listening - it is aimed at those who like a bit of a good tune not those deeply into 'Classical music' - like all such shows aimed at a general audience who possess little or no knowledge of the subject the presenter becomes more important than the material presented as the presenter sets the ethos of the show eg what can be dismissed with a quip hence the adoption of an exaggerated persona which the audience can relate to (think of the late top-gear presenter tho in his case I suspect the tv persona was very like the real one - it requires an exceptional presenter to be able to display real knowledge/appreciation yet still keep themselves viewed as 'one of us' by the intended audience
                  The content of the programme is on thing, but the unbearable attitude of Bossy-Boots Klein is another. If a listener can't get past that, it surely becomes immaterial what the aim of the programme is and whether it is succeeding in what it is setting out to do.

                  Comment

                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30241

                    Originally posted by LMcD View Post
                    The content of the programme is on thing, but the unbearable attitude of Bossy-Boots Klein is another.
                    She seems to be playing the role assigned to her by Radio 3 management: "I am your trusted guide." Unfortunately, it is for each listener to decide whether a presenter is to be 'trusted'. Presenters who are a bit weak on factual accuracy tend not to be trusted.

                    In primary school, teachers are supposed to be dogmatic (not 'nebulous' ). Even when they're wrong, they can be assured that primary school children won't know (until they're much older) that they were wrong. It becomes progressively much more acceptable for teachers to admit to uncertainty or ignorance.
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • Bryn
                      Banned
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 24688

                      Originally posted by french frank View Post
                      She seems to be playing the role assigned to her by Radio 3 management: "I am your trusted guide." Unfortunately, it is for each listener to decide whether a presenter is to be 'trusted'. Presenters who are a bit weak on factual accuracy tend not to be trusted.

                      In primary school, teachers are supposed to be dogmatic (not 'nebulous' ). Even when they're wrong, they can be assured that primary school children won't know (until they're much older) that they were wrong. It becomes progressively much more acceptable for teachers to admit to uncertainty or ignorance.
                      I don't know what the situation is today, but when I was at school, the approach referred to in your first two sentences applies to the secondary years' science teaching, too. First time round, I failed both Physics and Chemistry ')' levels as a result of giving answers based on then current scientific understanding rather than the historical misunderstanding we were taught, and expected to regurgitate.

                      I learned my lesson and served up the old-hat stuff for the resit.

                      Comment

                      • Serial_Apologist
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 37589

                        Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                        I don't know what the situation is today, but when I was at school, the approach referred to in your first two sentences applies to the secondary years' science teaching, too. First time round, I failed both Physics and Chemistry ')' levels as a result of giving answers based on then current scientific understanding rather than the historical misunderstanding we were taught, and expected to regurgitate.

                        I learned my lesson and served up the old-hat stuff for the resit.
                        In other words, presumably, you had to misunderstand the gravity of the situation?

                        Comment

                        • Frances_iom
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 2411

                          Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
                          The reductio ad absurdum of Frances's argument is that the main morning listening (3 hours) on the BBC's classical music programme is not for people with an interest in classical music...(just for people who happen to have the radio on, perhaps).
                          if all that matters is the 'reach' of the programme then just as once advertising is accepted as a paymaster then the actual contents don't really matter just the numbers attracted or delivered to the paymasters count - the old joke 'don't worry about the quality just feel the width' sums it up.

                          Comment

                          • Ein Heldenleben
                            Full Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 6748

                            The 'playlister' piece for which a companion is sought this morning is Eine Alpensinfonie...
                            Just saying....

                            Comment

                            • Eine Alpensinfonie
                              Host
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 20570

                              Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
                              The 'playlister' piece for which a companion is sought this morning is Eine Alpensinfonie...
                              Just saying....
                              Yep. I’ve sent them a long diatribe that they won’t be reading out - all about bleeding chunks and other issues around this whole concept.

                              Comment

                              • french frank
                                Administrator/Moderator
                                • Feb 2007
                                • 30241

                                Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
                                The 'playlister' piece for which a companion is sought this morning is Eine Alpensinfonie...
                                Just saying....
                                Last time they played Land of the Mountain and the Flood "Pat" was slapped down for suggesting Eine Alpensinfonie. Just saying … Presumably the latest companion piece will not be Land of the Mountain and the Flood. Although presenter today is IS rather than SK
                                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                                Comment

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