Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

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  • underthecountertenor
    Full Member
    • Apr 2011
    • 1584

    Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
    I rather appreciated the "fake old news" comment, uct - but the sneering tone of voice with which she read your comment out "suggested" that she didn't!

    Comment

    • underthecountertenor
      Full Member
      • Apr 2011
      • 1584

      Originally posted by french frank View Post
      Didn't hear it (as you know!) but 'aggressive' is just the word that occurred to me when I heard about it. A kind of unwilling admission of fault - perhaps under pressure? - rather than an apology. Some people have no difficulty in openly admitting a mistake, others try to wriggle their way out of it.

      Have been thinking about this since: is it with the rise of the 'presenter as personality/talent/star' &c? When 'announcers' were lower profile (even anonymous) their reputation was not so much on the line; and their whole professional attitude towards their audience (now 'my fans'/friends) seemed different
      Well, given that a few minutes earlier, she had said, of someone who was contributing to the playlist thing for the first time, 'welcome to the gang,' I think you are pretty much spot-on here, ff. Gangs exclude as well as include, don't they?

      Comment

      • ferneyhoughgeliebte
        Gone fishin'
        • Sep 2011
        • 30163

        Originally posted by french frank View Post
        Didn't hear itt
        I had to pop to the supermarket and didn't think that the ten(-ish)-minute trip was worth hunting a CD out for, and thought I'd do my Forum duty and give EC another "go". In the (slightly over) quarter-hour of the programme that I heard, I was informed (not by Ms Klein - it was a trailer) that "if my idea of Keats was somebody lounging on an Ottoman" (it never has been!) I could think again. Then I was given a list of suggestions to follow on from a piece by John Adams that I hadn't heard. Then the first movement of Tchaikovsky violin concerto, by which time I'd reached the supermarket. On return I caught the end of the Couperin piece, and was then treated to Ms Klein's hissy fit, followed by Sarah Walker talking over the Bryars piece that she was urging me to listen to (not Dr Walker's fault - her introduction to the piece was recorded separately and the two were broadcast, consecutively, on Saturday's H&N - the "simultaneous broadcast" was the EC team's bright idea).

        For an arbitrary listen, it was an utterly dire experience.
        [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

        Comment

        • underthecountertenor
          Full Member
          • Apr 2011
          • 1584

          Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
          I had to pop to the supermarket and didn't think that the ten(-ish)-minute trip was worth hunting a CD out for, and thought I'd do my Forum duty and give EC another "go". In the (slightly over) quarter-hour of the programme that I heard, I was informed (not by Ms Klein - it was a trailer) that "if my idea of Keats was somebody lounging on an Ottoman" (it never has been!) I could think again. Then I was given a list of suggestions to follow on from a piece by John Adams that I hadn't heard. Then the first movement of Tchaikovsky violin concerto, by which time I'd reached the supermarket. On return I caught the end of the Couperin piece, and was then treated to Ms Klein's hissy fit, followed by Sarah Walker talking over the Bryars piece that she was urging me to listen to (not Dr Walker's fault - her introduction to the piece was recorded separately and the two were broadcast, consecutively, on Saturday's H&N - the "simultaneous broadcast" was the EC team's bright idea).

          For an arbitrary listen, it was an utterly dire experience.
          You caught much the same as I did, and therefore presumably heard the demotic 'welcome to the gang'.

          Comment

          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            Originally posted by underthecountertenor View Post
            You caught much the same as I did, and therefore presumably heard the demotic 'welcome to the gang'.
            No - I've just checked and that comment occurred just after the Tchaikovsky, at which approximate time I was rootling around at the back of the mushrooms for the pummet with the longest date.

            Did she ever specify - Jets or Sharks?
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

            Comment

            • cloughie
              Full Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 22114

              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
              No - I've just checked and that comment occurred just after the Tchaikovsky, at which approximate time I was rootling around at the back of the mushrooms for the pummet with the longest date.

              Did she ever specify - Jets or Sharks?
              If you’re a Jet you’re a Jet forever - well at least ‘til they take you away!

              Comment

              • french frank
                Administrator/Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 30241

                Originally posted by underthecountertenor View Post
                Well, given that a few minutes earlier, she had said, of someone who was contributing to the playlist thing for the first time, 'welcome to the gang,'
                Yes, I heard that. "My" gang, I felt. It certainly excludes me As does much of Radio 3 these days. The voice and content aren't aimed at my kind of listening. Whereas I think they should be 'developing' the audience (making it better, more broadly, informed, inquiring), they're merely trying to 'grow' it. With not much sign of success. Perhaps they're just trying to maintain it, but they're not even doing that very convincingly.
                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                Comment

                • LMcD
                  Full Member
                  • Sep 2017
                  • 8405

                  Originally posted by LeMartinPecheur View Post
                  Robert Simpson's book is unequivocal: "It was composed in 1903, when Nielsen and his wife visited Greece, staying in a room that overlooked the Aegean Sea."
                  Friendly Eva from the Carl Nielsen Society confirms this. CN's wife was in Athens studying ancient Greek art. His letters and diaries tell us that he was working on the piece between March and May 1903.

                  Comment

                  • gurnemanz
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 7380

                    Originally posted by underthecountertenor View Post
                    Well, given that a few minutes earlier, she had said, of someone who was contributing to the playlist thing for the first time, 'welcome to the gang,' I think you are pretty much spot-on here, ff. Gangs exclude as well as include, don't they?
                    I have never been especially averse to SK, but her "gang" comment referred to above does seem to be to her detriment and confirms my decision not to tune in to EC any more. (I now only do so towards the end, not wishing to miss the start of CotW.) However, it seems from the compelling Nielsen contretemps that I might be missing something and there is some good fun to be had there after all. Maybe she feels she can get away with stuff like that especially if she has a gang to back her up.

                    Comment

                    • Serial_Apologist
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 37589

                      Originally posted by french frank View Post
                      I think they should be 'developing' the audience (making it better, more broadly, informed, inquiring), they're merely trying to 'grow' it.
                      They would seem to have learned something from how horticulturalists achieve this, namely by applying a lot of manure to the growing medium.

                      Comment

                      • hmvman
                        Full Member
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 1097

                        Originally posted by cloughie View Post
                        Are you going to tell her or are you going to leave it to the ‘Cornish One’.
                        Having just read about the Couperin business, I'm not sure I fancy one of Ms K's put downs, badge of honour or no. I think the 'Cornish One' can have the pleasure.

                        Comment

                        • underthecountertenor
                          Full Member
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 1584

                          Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
                          I have never been especially averse to SK, but her "gang" comment referred to above does seem to be to her detriment and confirms my decision not to tune in to EC any more. (I now only do so towards the end, not wishing to miss the start of CotW.) However, it seems from the compelling Nielsen contretemps that I might be missing something and there is some good fun to be had there after all. Maybe she feels she can get away with stuff like that especially if she has a gang to back her up.
                          People I know and trust who also know SK say she is delightful. I can only assume that she is a victim of the format. Heaven only knows, she wouldn’t be the first.

                          Comment

                          • cloughie
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 22114

                            Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                            They would seem to have learned something from how horticulturalists achieve this, namely by applying a lot of manure to the growing medium.
                            ...and you said ‘manure’ to be polite!

                            Comment

                            • french frank
                              Administrator/Moderator
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 30241

                              Originally posted by underthecountertenor View Post
                              People I know and trust who also know SK say she is delightful. I can only assume that she is a victim of the format.
                              That has to be undisputed: we said that Essential Classics was a "Poisoned Chalice" on Facebook when Ian Skelly took over: some people find the presenter triumphs regardless, others don't. The format - and the likely thinking behind a programme called 'Essential Classics' - are bound to be seen by many as inappropriate for a radio station that claims to take the arts and classical music seriously.

                              Sadly, the question of whether someone is 'delightful' or otherwise off air is totally irrelevant to those who only ever likely to know their on-air persona. But that's even more of a problem if presenters are encouraged to 'develop a persona' ('be young, be cool, be laid-back, be sassy').
                              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                              Comment

                              • antongould
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 8778

                                Fear not on Monday Skellers is back - he apologises for his many, many mistakes with boundless good grace ....

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