Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

**ahinton** · 28-12-17, 15:09

Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post

Again, apologies for the off-topic reply, but in my #2712 and #2728, I was referring specifically to (and replying to comments previously made by others including yourself) SK's television presentation, rather than Essential Classics. I would also add that my appreciation of all the presenters I mentioned in those two posts (including the "and many others") is very high, and that I have no wish "to be vocal in the view that the barbarians are at the gate and well and truly through it", leaving aside any attempts to trivialise - again - contradictory comments with such clichéd caricatures.

My position is rather that of someone who demands of Music Documentary programmes made by the BBC the same standards of factual accuracy and expertise that is demonstrated in and expected of documentaries about History, the Sciences, Visual Arts and even Sports commentary - programmes which also face the same "compromises" and confront the same "realpolitik" that you mention, but which do so with far greater integrity and respect for the intelligence of the audience - and with far less glee at "the cutting of corners".

Spot on!

**DracoM** · 28-12-17, 16:26

**teamsaint** · 28-12-17, 16:40

Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post

Again, apologies for the off-topic reply, but in my #2712 and #2728, I was referring specifically to (and replying to comments previously made by others including yourself) SK's television presentation, rather than Essential Classics. I would also add that my appreciation of all the presenters I mentioned in those two posts (including the "and many others") is very high, and that I have no wish "to be vocal in the view that the barbarians are at the gate and well and truly through it", leaving aside any attempts to trivialise - again - contradictory comments with such clichéd caricatures.

My position is rather that of someone who demands of Music Documentary programmes made by the BBC the same standards of factual accuracy and expertise that is demonstrated in and expected of documentaries about History, the Sciences, Visual Arts and even Sports commentary - programmes which also face the same "compromises" and confront the same "realpolitik" that you mention, but which do so with far greater integrity and respect for the intelligence of the audience - and with far less glee at "the cutting of corners".

I'm not sure, sadly, that sports commentary would stand up to the rigorous standards that you are looking for in music documentary.Personality tends to rule the roost. And elsewhere in more academic areas such as History, I grew weary a long time ago of a formula that seems terrified of straying from a curriculum - style orthodoxy .Allowing speculation (within the orthodoxy) to be presented as fact is also a serious issue.

**DracoM** · 28-12-17, 17:02

The much-missed Sky Sports Cricket Commentary team were excellent because they had crack stats people behind them, and it makes a huge difference to tier confidence. BUT that's while they are on air, corrigenda / addenda regularly fed into the ongoing. Music presenters can't do that - well, they can, presumably they have Wikithing at their desks as they broadcast? - or maybe they don;t as said upthread, think we are important enough to be thoroughly well prepared for. Donald Macleod's COTWs are usually pretty good. It's the improvisers, the wing and a prayer look-at-me chancers that get me.

'Never apologise, never explain' seems to be their mantra.

**zola** · 28-12-17, 19:49

Originally posted by DracoM View Post

'Never apologise, never explain' seems to be their mantra.

And not just Radio 3. I was listening to Daily Service as it was broadcast on Boxing Day and it it should have been "The Poetry of Christmas - On The Feast of Stephen." But instead of Good King Wenceslas, we got O Come, O Come Emmanuel and an entire programme from earlier in the month during Advent. No apology either at the end of the broadcast or the following day. The Advent programme stayed on the iplayer site under the Boxing Day blurb until earlier today and it now says "this episode is not currently available".

In a similar vein, I have been reading the January edition of BBC Music magazine and the last two issues of this have been riddled with simple proof reading errors.

**ferneyhoughgeliebte** · 29-12-17, 13:48

I see that, as part of the annual "New Year, New Music" week, next week's guest will be Harrison Birtwistle! I shall be very interested in hearing his comments - but it does seem a bit like Bertrand Russell appearing on It's A Knockout!

**cloughie** · 29-12-17, 13:50

Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post

I shall be very interested in hearing his comments - but it does seem a bit like Bertrand Russell appearing on It's A Knockout!

I missed that one!

**cloughie** · 29-12-17, 13:52

Originally posted by zola View Post

And not just Radio 3. I was listening to Daily Service as it was broadcast on Boxing Day and it it should have been "The Poetry of Christmas - On The Feast of Stephen." But instead of Good King Wenceslas, we got O Come, O Come Emmanuel and an entire programme from earlier in the month during Advent. No apology either at the end of the broadcast or the following day. The Advent programme stayed on the iplayer site under the Boxing Day blurb until earlier today and it now says "this episode is not currently available".

In a similar vein, I have been reading the January edition of BBC Music magazine and the last two issues of this have been riddled with simple proof reading errors.

Ee, it's all width and no quality these days. Bring back National Service, that'll sort it!

**french frank** · 29-12-17, 13:56

Originally posted by cloughie View Post

I missed that one!

Ferney's been on the English Breakfast this morning!

**ferneyhoughgeliebte** · 29-12-17, 13:56

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 01-01-18, 10:10

Happy New Year to all.

Sadly, the Beeb's new year's resolution appears to have been more of the same.

Today, we have best-of-the-bunch, Ian Skelly, giving us breathing chuncks of Mendelssohn and, more worryingly, he's developed the same breathless affliction. I do worry that the studio might be lined with asbestos.

To be fair, he's still better than most others.

**DracoM** · 01-01-18, 12:05

Meanwhile, Jonathan Swain has nothing to do. Hmm.

**Stanfordian** · 01-01-18, 12:09

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

Happy New Year to all.

Sadly, the Beeb's new year's resolution appears to have been more of the same.

Today, we have best-of-the-bunch, Ian Skelly, giving us breathing chuncks of Mendelssohn and, more worryingly, he's developed the same breathless affliction. I do worry that the studio might be lined with asbestos.

To be fair, he's still better than most others.

Hiya Eine Alpensinfonie,

I listened in yesterday and my abiding memory is one trail after another for the forthcoming Alfred Brendel 'Private Passions'.

**antongould** · 01-01-18, 12:24

Originally posted by Stanfordian View Post

Hiya Eine Alpensinfonie,

I listened in yesterday and my abiding memory is one trail after another for the forthcoming Alfred Brendel 'Private Passions'.

Indeed Stan and quite amazingly there was a trail immediately after the programme itself imploring us to listen again on the web ......

**Bryn** · 01-01-18, 12:30

Originally posted by DracoM View Post

Meanwhile, Jonathan Swain has nothing to do. Hmm.

Umm, http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09kcz51 . I will certainly be listening.