Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[antongould]

Hiya antongould,

My list of worse presenters would be quite a long one. I suppose its down to personal taste.

Indeed it is Stan and I would back your taste against mine every time .....

[Stanfordian]

Indeed it is Stan and I would back your taste against mine every time .....

[DracoM]

Depends very much on what you / R3 think the purpose of a presenter actually is, I'd say.

[french frank]

Depends very much on what you / R3 think the purpose of a presenter actually is, I'd say.

Perhaps the good ones are those whose names you can't immediately think of?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I agree there is a lot worse than Rob Cowan on R3.

I agree. We used to love Rob on the BBC Board, before he was instructed to dumb down with silly games.

[cloughie]

I'm eagerly awaiting a chance to nominate Ken Dodd's 'More Than Love' and 'Nutrocker' by Bee Bumble and the Stingers. Nor is it an 'Ill Wind' for admirers of Flanders and Swann.

Or maybe Glenn Miller's Story of a Starry Night or the Nice 3rd movt of Tchaikovsky Pathetique or maybe even Love Sculpture's Sabre Dance but hopefully not Donald Peers Please Don't Go.

[gurnemanz]

It occurred to me that once they lose interest in the current companion piece stunt they could perhaps introduce a new feature along the lines of the Word Disassociation game on I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue. Listeners suggest a totally unrelated item to play next. Any other listener spotting a connection wins a point and, as we know, points mean ......

[vinteuil]

We used to love Rob on the BBC Board, before he was instructed to dumb down with silly games.

... not all of us, Alpie, not all of us.



.

[Sir Velo]

I agree. We used to love Rob on the BBC Board, before he was instructed to dumb down with silly games.

..And singularly failed to show any backbone by refusing to take part in such mindless inanities...

[Richard Tarleton]

... not all of us, Alpie, not all of us...

I've mentioned it before - in terms of transactional analysis, Suzy's ego (in its technical sense, as evidenced by her presenting manner) is firmly rooted in parent>child mode, occasionally child>child. The occasions when she says things like "X is the wrong answer" (her emphasis) are perfect cases in point.

It's quite simple - I like to be addressed by R3 presenters, much as I am by R4 ones, in adult>adult mode - think Jonathan Swain, James Jolly, Stephen Johnson (a different sort of presenter, but respects his audience's intelligence). On Radio 4, Eddie Mair and the Today team represent everything good about presenting. Or, to lose the jargon, I wish to be treated as a grown-up. I don't want presenters assuming a familiarity they don't enjoy, as far as I'm concerned, and which until the Roger Wright era (now sadly getting worse under Alan Davey) they did not attempt to presume. To tell her audience that it's time to put their feet up and put the kettle on is merely to reveal her (their) assumptions about their audience. Penny Gore was the perfect breakfast time presenter, Catherine Bott and Lucie Skeaping also outstanding ones. It's possible to be fun, and adult. Rob C's mode harder to pin down - I suppose "avuncular" is another version of parent-child. Different when he's on Record Review, of course.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't want presenters assuming a familiarity they don't enjoy, as far as I'm concerned, and which until the Roger Wright era (now sadly getting worse under Alan Davey) they did not attempt to presume.

Certainly true as far as EC (the Thread topic, of course) is concerned - but not, I think it should be said, of the "proper" programmes. The wright-on over-excited, football-style commentary during the evening concerts certainly has been given a welcome dose of Valium - had it become more "eager", there would have been commentary during the performance. ("The audience has started clapping during Haydn's Op 33 #2 - they think it's all over ... it is now!")

As for RC - I'm another Robosceptic: he has an encyclopoea ... encyclopeid ... encyclopoed ... huge knowledge of repertoire composed between c1700 - 1930, and recorded between 1920 - 90, and my respect for him increased multifold after he actually engaged with posters on the old BBC Messageboards. But, even so, I can't say that I've ever "loved" his presenting style.

[teamsaint]

RC has great areas of expertise. Like knowledge of recorded music, which is pretty much a core activity at R3, or at least ought to be.
Unfortunately the BBC give him jobs to do , to which he isn't particularly well suited.

It's easy enough to value his expertise, and ignore the interviews that he struggles with.

[LMcD]

Or maybe Glenn Miller's Story of a Starry Night or the Nice 3rd movt of Tchaikovsky Pathetique or maybe even Love Sculpture's Sabre Dance but hopefully not Donald Peers Please Don't Go.

There is actually another 'take' on the Dance of the Hours, which, IMHO, makes the Allan Sherman sound like a work of genius: 'Like I Do' by Maureen Evans.....

[cloughie]

I've mentioned it before - in terms of transactional analysis, Suzy's ego (in its technical sense, as evidenced by her presenting manner) is firmly rooted in parent>child mode, occasionally child>child. The occasions when she says things like "X is the wrong answer" (her emphasis) are perfect cases in point.

It's quite simple - I like to be addressed by R3 presenters, much as I am by R4 ones, in adult>adult mode - think Jonathan Swain, James Jolly, Stephen Johnson (a different sort of presenter, but respects his audience's intelligence). On Radio 4, Eddie Mair and the Today team represent everything good about presenting. Or, to lose the jargon, I wish to be treated as a grown-up. I don't want presenters assuming a familiarity they don't enjoy, as far as I'm concerned, and which until the Roger Wright era (now sadly getting worse under Alan Davey) they did not attempt to presume. To tell her audience that it's time to put their feet up and put the kettle on is merely to reveal her (their) assumptions about their audience. Penny Gore was the perfect breakfast time presenter, Catherine Bott and Lucie Skeaping also outstanding ones. It's possible to be fun, and adult. Rob C's mode harder to pin down - I suppose "avuncular" is another version of parent-child. Different when he's on Record Review, of course.

Very well put, Richard - Penny Gore, professional in her presentation with warmth in her radio voice. Rob is excellent when presenting a show that he 'owns' as was the case with the late lamented CD Masters as was Jonathan Swain whose style for the same programme was different but equally good. There is an uneasy uncomfortablity about the style of delivery of both main presenters on Essential Classics. If they are wanting to communicate with their audience they could learn a lot from listening to the best presenters on Radio Cornwall. Local radio sometimes gets a lot of stick, very often unjustified because there is a high level of experience and professionalism there, and others who are keen to learn their trade both in production and presentation.

[french frank]

I've mentioned it before - in terms of transactional analysis, Suzy's ego (in its technical sense, as evidenced by her presenting manner) is firmly rooted in parent>child mode, occasionally child>child.

Doesn't this stem from the entire rationale of the programme: that's it's for people new to classical music, who may be a bit overawed by listening to <gulp> Radio 3, who will then be intimidated if too much is demanded of them (a work lasting 30+ mins, discussion of more advanced musical points or which assume a certain amount of knowledge: in short which address the interests of more informed listeners)?

The presenters are carefully (over carefully?) addressing this audience, as - horrible Radio 3 phrase - 'trusted guides': disastrous on the occasions when, on the 'trusted' basis, they can't be trusted to get basics right. Unforgiveable, in fact. Who knows? Perhaps people who know very little appreciate being treated like children? Perhaps they have neither concept of a musical world beyond, nor any desire to reach it? So be it - but does three hours of this every morning fulfil Radio 3's educational role with integrity?