Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[cloughie]

Since the subject of Hank Marvin has been raised, it gives the opportunity for a moan. I bought my mother his latest, heavily advertised, album for her birthday. She was visiting us that day so I thought GREAT - a chance for her to hear it through a fabulous Hi-Fi system instead of her little bedside radio/cd combo. My goodness - was I disappointed?! Pop recordings are usually well produced and can sound superb on a great system. Not this offering! A thin reproduction of Hank's guitar, electronic 'strings' that sounded like they'd been downloaded from a cheap mobile 'phone and poor sound quality.

I see it was produced by Hank's son who seems either to have cloth ears or a parsimonious approach to creating a product. Just, imho, a shoddy 'cash in' disc with low musical and production values. Alas, my mother loved it!

Hank has not been the same since the Fall of Flingel Bunt!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=flingel+bunt&rlz=1C1AKJH_enGB665GB666&oq=Flingel&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.9103j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[french frank]

Why was Miles Davis played? Clearly by popular demand.

Clearly? Really? How many people would constitute 'popular demand'? Two? Three?

Bearing in mind that Radio 3 is aimed at the general public, not only a narrow band of knowledgeable Classical enthusiasts

The flaw in that argument is that 'the general public' is not at all interested in classical music or Radio 3. Yes, it would be excellent if the BBC sought to interest more of the general public in classical music and Radio 3 (see my alternative suggestion for how they might do it - but won't). Meanwhile, should acres of Radio 3's schedule be aimed at a notional 'general public' rather than the 'narrow band of knowledgeable Classical enthusiasts' (whose knowledge may vary from not very much to a great deal), including the most popular listening times, every day?

The whole purpose of the original Third Programme was that it should not, as a service, be aimed vaguely at 'the general public'.

it might:
persuade some listeners to adjust listening habits developed over the years, and
knock some of the perceived stuffiness out of the Classical music agenda.

What ferney said. The old mistake of concentrating on getting new customers and neglecting the ones you already have.

[Quarky]

The remit of Radio 3 strikes me as a particularly difficult one to manage:
Around its core proposition of classical music, its speech-based programming should inform and educate the audience about music and culture. Jazz, world music, drama, the arts and ideas and religious programming should feature in its output.

Compare that with aim of Classic FM: Classical music is at the heart of everything we do at Classic FM we believe classical music can and should be a part of everyone's lives - regardless of age,

It seems to me that the success of Classic FM (and many other successful businesses) is largely due to that it has just a single aim and a single product.

Radio 3 has a wide remit, which might lead to several products or services, addressed to different audiences. Not a good way to run a business. Possibly moves to integrate the output of Radio 3, however weak in the case of Essential Classics, might make the station easier to run , and who knows make it more successful.

[doversoul1]

The remit of Radio 3 strikes me as a particularly difficult one to manage:
Around its core proposition of classical music, its speech-based programming should inform and educate the audience about music and culture. Jazz, world music, drama, the arts and ideas and religious programming should feature in its output.

Compare that with aim of Classic FM: Classical music is at the heart of everything we do at Classic FM we believe classical music can and should be a part of everyone's lives - regardless of age,

It seems to me that the success of Classic FM (and many other successful businesses) is largely due to that it has just a single aim and a single product.

Radio 3 has a wide remit, which might lead to several products or services, addressed to different audiences. Not a good way to run a business. Possibly moves to integrate the output of Radio 3, however weak in the case of Essential Classics, might make the station easier to run , and who knows make it more successful.

That’s the very essence of the problem/misconception; Radio 3 is not a business. Profit and the ease of running should not come into how Radio 3 operates.

[teamsaint]

The remit of Radio 3 strikes me as a particularly difficult one to manage:
Around its core proposition of classical music, its speech-based programming should inform and educate the audience about music and culture. Jazz, world music, drama, the arts and ideas and religious programming should feature in its output.

Compare that with aim of Classic FM: Classical music is at the heart of everything we do at Classic FM we believe classical music can and should be a part of everyone's lives - regardless of age,

It seems to me that the success of Classic FM (and many other successful businesses) is largely due to that it has just a single aim and a single product.

Radio 3 has a wide remit, which might lead to several products or services, addressed to different audiences. Not a good way to run a business. Possibly moves to integrate the output of Radio 3, however weak in the case of Essential Classics, might make the station easier to run , and who knows make it more successful.

They have 24 hours a day to programme. One of the biggest websites in the country to utilise. No shareholders to answer to. Artists and their managements banging on their door to get air time. They have a prestigious brand, and the worlds largest classical music festival to draw upon. They have a guaranteed budget, admittedly shrinking in real terms.In other words, plenty of resources to fulfill the remit.

An awful lot of people in other " creative industries" would love to have their sort of problems.

And from what I have read, that remit doesnt seem especially complex compared to other BBC radio stations.

[antongould]

They have 24 hours a day to programme. One of the biggest websites in the country to utilise. No shareholders to answer to. Artists and their managements banging on their door to get air time. They have a prestigious brand, and the worlds largest classical music festival to draw upon. They have a guaranteed budget, admittedly shrinking in real terms.In other words, plenty of resources to fulfill the remit.

An awful lot of people in other " creative industries" would love to have their sort of problems.

And from what I have read, that remit doesnt seem especially complex compared to other BBC radio stations.

Indeed ts

[french frank]

The remit of Radio 3 strikes me as a particularly difficult one to manage:
Around its core proposition of classical music, its speech-based programming should inform and educate the audience about music and culture. Jazz, world music, drama, the arts and ideas and religious programming should feature in its output.

Classic FM is a music station, Radio 3 is a cultural station. When the BBC Trust drew up the first R3 service licence, including the bit you quoted, FoR3 objected because we felt there should be some reference to the fact that Radio 3 aimed a bit higher than easy listening, undemanding output, be it music, drama, discussion or features. We thought if that wasn't stated in the remit, Radio 3 could get away with trying to target a 'broader audience' which didn't want demanding output and was quite happy with easy listening. Needless to say, the BBC ignored us - as usual

If Radio 3 drops its drama, jazz, world music and features, which bit of BBC Radio will take them up, to the same level? In any case the constant complaints have been about the classical music output. Many people who want to listen to it aren't satisfied with what they're getting. Giving us the same thing all round the clock won't make it any better.

Possibly moves to integrate the output of Radio 3, however weak in the case of Essential Classics, might make the station easier to run , and who knows make it more successful.

How do you measure success? More listeners?

[Quarky]

Thanks for explanation(s).

[cloughie]

They have 24 hours a day to programme. One of the biggest websites in the country to utilise. No shareholders to answer to. Artists and their managements banging on their door to get air time. They have a prestigious brand, and the worlds largest classical music festival to draw upon. They have a guaranteed budget, admittedly shrinking in real terms.In other words, plenty of resources to fulfill the remit.

An awful lot of people in other " creative industries" would love to have their sort of problems.

And from what I have read, that remit doesnt seem especially complex compared to other BBC radio stations.

Well said ts. ....and get back to the quality basics it is good at and leave the morning fayre to CFM!

[french frank]

Well said ts. ....and get back to the quality basics it is good at and leave the morning fayre to CFM!

Another argument might be that if they can make Radio 2 so general, so middle of the road, so unadventurous, so appealing to the very general public that it attracts the largest audience in UK radio by some margin at a negligible cost per listener, can they not - as a public service broadcaster - subsidise a station which aims at a narrow audience, and a higher, special interest level in all it does, at a cost which may be more expensive per listener, but still costs less in actual cash than Radio 2?

"The BBC has never sat down to define 'culture', or what a 'cultural network' should be doing. Nor has it ever really faced up to the fact that if such a network is to do its job properly, it will … only have a very small audience. But that audience matters." H. Carpenter, The Envy of the World, 1996.

[DracoM]

I'm with H.Carpenter on this.
"The BBC has never sat down to define 'culture', or what a 'cultural network' should be doing. Nor has it ever really faced up to the fact that if such a network is to do its job properly, it will … only have a very small audience. But that audience matters."

[LMcD]

I made a point of listening to all of 'Essential Classics' this morning. Overall, I found it it a pretty unsatisfactory experience. The programme seemed to lack any structure or what, to use a currently popular term, one could call 'narrative'. The one highlight was the truly beautiful recording, previously unknown to me, of the Tallis Fantasia by Sir Mark Elder and the Halle. I agreed wholeheartedly with those who contacted the programme to say that there was nothing to follow it. (Who would have guessed that we would end up with the Barber Adagio? )

[vinteuil]

I'm with H.Carpenter on this.

... which quote in particular?

http://www.azquotes.com/author/28898-Harry_Carpenter

[antongould]

Another argument might be that if they can make Radio 2 so general, so middle of the road, so unadventurous, so appealing to the very general public that it attracts the largest audience in UK radio by some margin at a negligible cost per listener, can they not - as a public service broadcaster - subsidise a station which aims at a narrow audience, and a higher, special interest level in all it does, at a cost which may be more expensive per listener, but still costs less in actual cash than Radio 2?

"The BBC has never sat down to define 'culture', or what a 'cultural network' should be doing. Nor has it ever really faced up to the fact that if such a network is to do its job properly, it will … only have a very small audience. But that audience matters." H. Carpenter, The Envy of the World, 1996.

How many narrow audiences (and how narrow) should the BBC give this treatment to .... ????

[french frank]

How many narrow audiences (and how narrow) should the BBC give this treatment to .... ????

It's up to the BBC to decide in the end which narrow audiences, but it already has an Asian Network, and 1Xtra catering for contemporary black music. And Radio 1 itself targets the 15-29 year olds with contemporary pop music … I don't think Radio 3 has a clear idea atm of the kind of narrow audience(s) it should target.